Changing ordinances

[Jeff Lebowski]

RE: the realization that what you were taught and raised on was bunk/whitewashed, there are the feelings of betrayal... but additionally, for those who served missions there's the realization that you spent two years preaching and spreading and defending that same information, which for me was (and still is, really) pretty difficult to process even though I was ignorant at age 19-21.

A little melodramatic don't you think? You don't think there is any virtue in being associated with the LDS church?

[scottie]

A little melodramatic don't you think?

Possibly.

You don't think there is any virtue in being associated with the LDS church?

What does that have to do with what I said?

[Pheidippides]

And I used to be a conservative republican. Moving on is part of life.

What I said above notwithstanding, I agree. Being bitter or angry as a general matter or holding a grudge over such things is not helpful. You move forward as best you can.

[Pheidippides]

A little melodramatic don't you think? You don't think there is any virtue in being associated with the LDS church?

I think there is plenty of virtue, for my part, and have no intention of disassociating. I am a better person and father because of my participation. My wife and I had this very discussion last night.

As a cynical aside, it does not hurt that my entire life and friends are so interwoven with Mormonism at this point that departure would be exceptionally difficult.

[Pheidippides]

Honest question here, at what age do you think church members should be taught this history versus the "whitewashed" or "bunk" version of church history you refer to?

Or, should there not be an age limit at all, should it be woven into the fabric of what is taught/discussed on Sunday at all levels?

I wish I had an answer to this. But I don't. My wife learned more about this than I did as an adolescent and she is much better adjusted. I dint know JS practiced polygamy until well after my mission.

[LA Ute]

I wish I had an answer to this. But I don't. My wife learned more about this than I did as an adolescent and she is much better adjusted. I dint know JS practiced polygamy until well after my mission.

Wow. That is pretty late. I have no answers, BTW, about when this stuff should be taught. It occurs to me (half-baked thought warning here) that one practical problem might be that mush of the controversial historical stuff is disputed or unclear. How do you teach that in Primary or even in YM-YW?

[Pheidippides]

Wow. That is pretty late. I have no answers, BTW, about when this stuff should be taught. It occurs to me (half-baked thought warning here) that one practical problem might be that mush of the controversial historical stuff is disputed or unclear. How do you teach that in Primary or even in YM-YW?

Exactly. It is unclear (although my inner cynic - he's been showing up a lot lately- wants to say that the church vaults could clear a lot of this up). Scholars don't agree on details, and I don't think we'll ever know.

It definitely is shaping the way I deal with my own kids. I have adopted a policy - applicable to all matters, not just religion - that if my kids are old enough to ask the question, they are old enough to receive an honest and truthful answer.

I want to also bring up another issue. I have all of these concerns and doubts, and yet I have had some marvelous spiritual experiences, some of which I've share here on CUF. What am I to make of that? I don't know yet.

[scottie]

I want to also bring up another issue. I have all of these concerns and doubts, and yet I have had some marvelous spiritual experiences, some of which I've share here on CUF. What am I to make of that? I don't know yet.

To me the answer to that would be the same as how/why all people--non-Mormon religions, atheists, etc.--have marvelous spiritual experiences.

[Sullyute]

I have adopted a policy - applicable to all matters, not just religion - that if my kids are old enough to ask the question, they are old enough to receive an honest and truthful answer.

You still need to tailor the answer to their capacity to reason, but I really, really like this policy.

[Pheidippides]

You still need to tailor the answer to their capacity to reason, but I really, really like this policy.

That's certainly true - when my five year old daughter asked some years ago where babies came from, we didn't exactly include blow jobs and victoria's secret in the discussion. But it has done some wonderful things: our kids don't feel like we are withholding things from them and they are willing to ask us questions. I have had some pretty sophisticated conversations with that same daughter (now going on 10).

[LA Ute]

Exactly. It is unclear (although my inner cynic - he's been showing up a lot lately- wants to say that the church vaults could clear a lot of this up). Scholars don't agree on details, and I don't think we'll ever know.

It definitely is shaping the way I deal with my own kids. I have adopted a policy - applicable to all matters, not just religion - that if my kids are old enough to ask the question, they are old enough to receive an honest and truthful answer.

I want to also bring up another issue. I have all of these concerns and doubts, and yet I have had some marvelous spiritual experiences, some of which I've share here on CUF. What am I to make of that? I don't know yet.

One possible explanation is that God lives and loves you and wants to bless you, and does so regardless of any honest doubts you may have. (No sarcasm, irony or preaching intended in that statement. Just my honest observation.)

[Pheidippides]

One possible explanation is that God lives and loves you and wants to bless you, and does so regardless of any honest doubts you may have. (No sarcasm, irony or preaching intended in that statement. Just my honest observation.)

I didn't take it sarcastically, mostly because that's what I believe. The only thing I believe more strongly than that is that I know next to nothing about what is true from a religious perspective, and that I'm in search of the answers as much as the next guy.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I want to also bring up another issue. I have all of these concerns and doubts, and yet I have had some marvelous spiritual experiences, some of which I've share here on CUF. What am I to make of that? I don't know yet.

I think that makes you pretty typical.

[The_Tick]

The only time I typically speak up in GD, which I don't go to because I teach a SS class, is when they are talking about something I struggle with. I share questions/concerns. I don't share the stuff I just don't believe.

Most of the time I will have folks come up to me later and thank me for sharing because "I have the same questions, I just don't want to bring them up and have folks think I am stupid". Which is kinda back handed, I am not stupid for bringing them up, but that isn't what they mean.

I quit caring what others think about me in my Ward, and it makes it much easier to ask questions/raise concerns.

Now...I probably will never have another "major" calling in this ward, and I don't really care too, but I would venture to say that most folks think my testimony is too "weak" to do any heavy pulling.

But I actually think my testimony is actually pretty good and enjoy the two callings that I have.

[Moliere]

I didn't take it sarcastically, mostly because that's what I believe. The only thing I believe more strongly than that is that I know next to nothing about what is true from a religious perspective, and that I'm in search of the answers as much as the next guy.

I may be wrong, but this sounds more like the Mormonism that Joseph Smith tried to set up. At some point we got off of the "search for truth" wagon and got onto the "we have all the answers" wagon (speaking generally of course).