We had a great missionary doctrine moment yesterday...

[TripletDaddy]

By golly, we wouldn't want those new converts to think it was the light of Christ stirring within them. Mayhem could ensue.

This missionary, who acted worse than korihor, deserves to be punished. It is too bad the stake president couldn't strike the Elder dumb, then send him off to beg for food. I pray that the ward (and really the entire stake) does its part to trample him to death for such an egregious anti-doctrinal speech. I can only imagine how many souls were lost today at the hands of this anti-christ.

[jay santos]

If you'd bother to read above, you'd know the answer to your query.

1) The highly doubt the kid was humiliated in the slightest. I doubt he even understood that anything he said was contradicted by the SP.

2) The kid left no wiggle room to let it go. He took hard lines in how he interpreted things, and he was clearly and plainly anti-doctrinal/anti-scriptural in virtually all the doctrinal points he made in his talk.

I've also heard plenty of false/unrevealed doctrine preached from the pulpit in sacrament meeting. But this talk was unique. It wasn't just that it was false or non-doctrinal - it was anti-doctrinal. Virtually each of the points he talked about were directly opposed to the doctrine of the Church and to very plain scripture. The scriptures say X and he said it was Y. Korrihor would have had a hard time outdoing this kid. Seriously.

With a family of week-long converts in the congregation, plus another family in our ward moving quickly toward baptism, it's especially important to get the basic doctrine right - and to not contradict what they're (HOPEFULLY?) being taught currently by missionaries.

To digest his talk and try to give an explanation for what he said as opposed to what the actual doctrine on the subject says - I think he's had a hard time delineating between the influence and role of the Holy Ghost prior to baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. And there are some areas where confusion and uncertainty could definitely come in. So he made up a delineation that doesn't exist - before baptism, it's NOT the influence of the Holy Ghost, but the Light of Christ that is responsible for people gaining testimonies of the truthfulness of scripture, Christ's atonement, etc, is just plain wrong. Many, many scriptures (and the agreed doctrine as taught in any manual that anyone has ever released) say that it IS the Holy Ghost. This is not a trivial point - it's the prime role of one of the Godhead. It's a major part of LDS doctrine.

Sounds like he got his info from the Bible Dictionary entry written by BRM.

http://lds.org/scriptures/bd/light-of-christ?lang=eng

I've heard this emphasized by various leaders on my mission and since who do want to delineate the Holy Ghost as something primarily for members who receive the ordinance of the GoHG and light of Christ for non-members. I think the motivation on this is usually a hard ass/we're all right they're all wrong kind of motivation that you get from the BRM types. I agree with your take on it, Statman, but I wouldn't say the doctrine is clear.

[il Padrino Ute]

NOMENCLATURE IS IMPORTANT!

I've got your back on this, wuap. Nomenclative solidarity.

[fusnik]

Who is willing to bet that he is just restating what he heard from his mission president?

[RC Vikings]

I would prefer that homecoming talks consist of the RM telling about their mission, stories about various people they came in contact with and spiritual moments that took place. When a kid goes out he needs to tell about some events in his life that influenced him to serve a mission, thank the people in the ward that helped him along the way and finally thank his family. Leave the preaching and talking about gospel concepts to another time because nobody came to hear that.

[jay santos]

I would prefer that homecoming talks consist of the RM telling about their mission, stories about various people they came in contact with and spiritual moments that took place. When a kid goes out he needs to tell about some events in his life that influenced him to serve a mission, thank the people in the ward that helped him along the way and finally thank his family. Leave the preaching and talking about gospel concepts to another time because nobody came to hear that.

Yep, except somewhere somebody decided that made for bad sacrament meetings, so now they assign an RM a topic.

[Green Monstah]

Call me crazy, but I actually think the kid was not that far off. I remember researching the topic of the relationship between the Spirit of Christ/Light of Christ, HG, Faith and Priesthood, and concluded that these were really different terms used for the same phenomena. Not sure it really matters what pricks peoples hearts, only that it's of God.

BTW, I've heard this doctrine preached by a 70, and suspect that this kid heard a similar thing from a GA on his mission.

[clackamascoug]

What ever happened to "Return and Report." I used to enjoy a good mission report, especially the compare/contrast with the going out versus the coming home.

I'd like to know more about the Holy Ghost. Who is He? Where did he come from? Where is he Going?

Post Script: Back in the day, the exciting Mission Reports were actually fuel to inspire the youth of the ward to dream about going on missions. Nowaday's the kids don't pay attention to the RM any more than they do to the High CouncilMan

[Moliere]

I would prefer that homecoming talks consist of the RM telling about their mission, stories about various people they came in contact with and spiritual moments that took place. When a kid goes out he needs to tell about some events in his life that influenced him to serve a mission, thank the people in the ward that helped him along the way and finally thank his family. Leave the preaching and talking about gospel concepts to another time because nobody came to hear that.

I've sat through some farewells that followed this approach that were just plain awful. THere were others that were great. I think farewells should have assigned topics. These kids mostly have had very little experience with the gospel and especially real life experience. When they come home they should tell about their mission and share uplifting stories since they'll have had more experiences by then.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Did the kid's family hand out invites for the his return Sacrament meeting talk? I remember in the good ol' days of the 1990s hearing stories about families decorating the foyers with items relating to the country where their kid was going on his mission. But I've never been able to verify this story, it has a Branbury-ward-goes-to-Vegas-to-get-married-one-weekend kind of vibe to it.

[falafel]

What ever happened to "Return and Report." I used to enjoy a good mission report, especially the compare/contrast with the going out versus the coming home.

I'd like to know more about the Holy Ghost. Who is He? Where did he come from? Where is he Going?

Post Script: Back in the day, the exciting Mission Reports were actually fuel to inspire the youth of the ward to dream about going on missions. Nowaday's the kids don't pay attention to the RM any more than they do to the High CouncilMan

I came home after they started assigning subjects to RMs. My topic was the First Article of Faith. I basically read something quick about each of the ordinances/principles of the gospel and then shared mission stories that were somewhat related to each. IMO, that's the best way to accomplish both objectives and nobody feels preached to.

[grapevine]

Assigned subjects seem to be more in keeping the spirit of sacrament meeting than eulogies do for 19 year old people. There funeral should be decades away. I been to some were it was no more than telling about the person,, laughter and tears and nothing about the gospel.

I came from an area were there was a cultural obligation to attend them just because you went to school with someone. Ricks earned the right to host there conference tournament and I did not want to miss it. Was told since someone was my classmate I needed to come home for his farewell. Tourney not that big a deal. Heard about it had a letdown. I don't see the obligation to go to something because someone was my classmate.

As for Light of Christ every one has it. Why Lamoni felt he did wrong in slaying his servants. I think The Holy Ghost is temporal. While gift of Holy Ghost is permanent comes after baptism. After you act.