Breaking News! - An Armed Intruder in Sacrament Meeting Today

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  • clackamascoug
    Banned
    • Dec 2009
    • 9709

    #1

    Breaking News! - An Armed Intruder in Sacrament Meeting Today

    For the past 3 weeks a troubled 26 year old member with a history of mental illness, has been hanging around the church. He would come into the building during the day and leaving windows unlocked, and would sneak into the building after midnight, and sleep in the attic which is entranced by the ladder by the stage. Apparently, he had been doing this for several months before being detected. In the last couple of weeks his situation escalated where he was becoming belligerent with people.

    This morning at 6 am, the Stake President shows up to find chalk written graffiti all over the outside entrances of the church. He also finds the perp asleep on the couch in the foyer. With the SP 2nd counselor showing up they talk to the guy. 2nd counselor sees that he's armed with a 10" knife and a long two pronged barbecue fork. The Stake Presidency decides to tell the Bishop's to be on the lookout in case he disrupts meetings today, and if they see him in a meeting to call 911. (epic fail)

    As the opening hymn is about to end, the known troubled young adult enters the chapel and sits in the middle, two rows from the front. After the opening prayer, the Bishop gets up and goes to the Stake Offices. I'm sitting on the right of the chapel, behind the Deacons, and get out my Blackberry and text a couple of other members to be on the look out for trouble. After the Sacrament, we pretty much have the guy passively surrounded, while the YW begin their program.

    Unknown to us congregants, the Sheriff's deputies are on the outside of the Chapel, deeming it's best to wait to evacuate the chapel naturally after the meeting, hoping to avoid a situation. During the closing prayer, the HPGL, (a hard nosed sob if there ever was one) prompted the people on either side to vacate. The HPGL sat on the end of the pew for the prayer. As soon as the prayer is over the leadership, including me, surround the perp giving him his space, but asking him to leave. At this point he stands on the pew and pulls out the knife and prongs, and yells that he has a right to be there. At this point the Sheriff's Deputies come in and I'm trying to expedite the evacuation of the chapel. The perp decides to run for it across the top of the pews going front to back. 1,2,3,4 steps on top, and he falls hard, not two feet from our good friend. The people scatter like flies, and 6 cops have their guns on the guy, and the perp has his weapons in hand swiping the air trying to find a victim. I'm afraid at this point that he's going to harm himself. With guns pulled the cops issue warnings to no avail. With people still getting out of the chapel, Cop #1 pulls his tazer, and promptly shoots into the back of a pew. Cop #2 hits the perp, but the leather jacket blocks skin penetration, Cop #3's tazer did the job and got the perp on the ground. They handcuffed the guy, and took him away.

    I was privie to the debriefing by the Stake President, and it was mentioned that the cops were prepared to shoot him, excepting two things. The cops were in a cross fire situation, and the lead cop said he didn't want to shoot anyone in a chapel. However, they said if the 3rd tazer wouldn't have worked they would have gone to deadly force with so many women and children around with a knife wielding assailant. It turns out the the perp had a hit list, with the YSA Bishop, and our Bishop as the first to go.

    With the situation in California fresh on everyones mind, it was not a situation to take lightly. We did the whole 3 hour block, but it was tough going to be sure.
    Last edited by clackamascoug; 10-24-2010, 02:54 PM.
  • YOhio
    Hipster Mode
    • Nov 2008
    • 26165

    #2
    Wow. It sounds like it could have been a lot worse. Glad it worked out okay.

    Comment

    • CardiacCoug
      вот так штука
      • Nov 2008
      • 11013

      #3
      Crazy. Glad they could get him with the tasers.

      Comment

      • SCcoug
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2008
        • 7625

        #4
        Glad it worked out ok. Any reason given by the SP for leaving the knife wielding guy in the building?

        Comment

        • Jeff Lebowski
          Corporate lackey for Jesus
          • Nov 2008
          • 69641

          #5
          Wow. Very happy to hear that nobody got hurt.
          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

          Comment

          • Devildog
            Motor Boatin' SOB
            • Oct 2010
            • 1239

            #6
            I'm glad he didn't cut anybody.

            There are broken people out there.

            The answers are often not pretty.
            "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
            -Thucydides

            "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
            -Miyamoto Musashi

            Si vis pacem, para bellum

            Comment

            • ERCougar
              Junior Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 10978

              #7
              Originally posted by SCcoug View Post
              Glad it worked out ok. Any reason given by the SP for leaving the knife wielding guy in the building?
              Or didn't call the police at that point? And why would the HPGL take it upon himself to evacuate the row and ask the guy to leave when the police were waiting to do it themselves?

              I'm glad it went ok, but I think you're pretty lucky it did.
              At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
              -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

              Comment

              • clackamascoug
                Banned
                • Dec 2009
                • 9709

                #8
                Originally posted by SCcoug View Post
                Glad it worked out ok. Any reason given by the SP for leaving the knife wielding guy in the building?
                Bingo - In the debrief, it was clearly evident that that was a HUGE oversight. In fact, most anyone else involved would have done it differently. The bottom line, is that there was enough intel from the beginning, that it shouldn't have ever happened in the first place.

                Comment

                • clackamascoug
                  Banned
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 9709

                  #9
                  Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                  And why would the HPGL take it upon himself to evacuate the row and ask the guy to leave when the police were waiting to do it themselves?
                  The HPGL is probably the alpha dog of the stake. He's a serial stake calling guy with the strongest personality in our stake. He knew the cops would be coming in, and the people he evacuated are 90% blind. We needed to get them out of there. He had his coat and tie off, and was ready to bind with his tie should he need to. The reasoning of his talking to the perp is a long history with the guy and his family, and to make time while everyone was getting out.

                  In retrospect, the whole thing was mishandled on two fronts. 1. Letting the guy walk into a chapel when known to have knives on his person, and 2. Letting the meeting progress with cops on the outside ready to act. If I was in charge though, it would have been pretty tough to change up the events as they played out.

                  Bottom Line, I'm glad the kid didn't get shot, and I'm glad no one got stabbed. But it was really surrealistic as the whole thing play out.

                  Comment

                  • old_gregg
                    scaly man fish
                    • Nov 2009
                    • 16915

                    #10
                    Originally posted by clackamascoug View Post
                    The HPGL is probably the alpha dog of the stake. He's a serial stake calling guy with the strongest personality in our stake. He knew the cops would be coming in, and the people he evacuated are 90% blind. We needed to get them out of there. He had his coat and tie off, and was ready to bind with his tie should he need to. The reasoning of his talking to the perp is a long history with the guy and his family, and to make time while everyone was getting out.

                    In retrospect, the whole thing was mishandled on two fronts. 1. Letting the guy walk into a chapel when known to have knives on his person, and 2. Letting the meeting progress with cops on the outside ready to act. If I was in charge though, it would have been pretty tough to change up the events as they played out.

                    Bottom Line, I'm glad the kid didn't get shot, and I'm glad no one got stabbed. But it was really surrealistic as the whole thing play out.
                    Clackamas, are you located in Clackamas? I have a sneaking suspicion that this situation would have turned out differently and much more unfortunately in some wards I've been in that are highly populated by CCWP holders.
                    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

                    Comment

                    • Mrs. Funk
                      Lawyer Wannabe
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 2690

                      #11
                      How scary. I'm glad no one was injured. That situation could have escalated very, very quickly.
                      "You know, I was looking at your shirt and your scarf and I was thinking that if you had leaned over, I could have seen everything." ~Trial Ad Judge

                      Comment

                      • clackamascoug
                        Banned
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 9709

                        #12
                        Originally posted by camleish View Post
                        Clackamas, are you located in Clackamas? I have a sneaking suspicion that this situation would have turned out differently and much more unfortunately in some wards I've been in that are highly populated by CCWP holders.
                        Clackamas is hard to define. It's a zip code, its a county, but not a city. I don't generally live in the Clackamas area per say, but I can drive there in 5 minutes.

                        Divine Intervention Sidebar: Our local heat packer wasn't at church today, but he carries 24/7 just for situations like this. For him to "miss his chance" after 20 years of being in the same ward, is almost comical, if not inspired. I have to admit looking forward to our conversation about him being a day late and a dollar short.


                        Originally posted by Mrs. Funk View Post
                        How scary. I'm glad no one was injured. That situation could have escalated very, very quickly.
                        It was weird how it did escalate so quickly. I think 80% of the ward was not aware of the situation, even when the knifes appeared. Our friend who was the one mentioned with the perp practically falling in her lap, came over today and talked about it with my wife. Her husband is a former Bishop, and she kind of knew his history, and when he fell she patted him on the shoulder, saying settle down, it'll be OK. Then she saw the knife, and got out of there while he gathered himself.

                        You're right though... it was mere seconds from being a suicide by cops, as the perp was not going to back down. Upon reflection, he could have easily grabbed a hostage, and done some damage. I'll never forget as I'm 10 feet away as he pulls out the 10" knife, taking swipes at people, yelling about how he loves Jesus, and saying he wants to effing kill the Bishop. All the while the YW are in the choir seats watching this scene play out. Just terrible.
                        Last edited by clackamascoug; 10-24-2010, 08:48 PM.

                        Comment

                        • SuperGabers
                          aka... UtahDan's Wifey
                          • May 2009
                          • 2182

                          #13
                          I am glad he had only a knife...

                          Comment

                          • Colly Wolly
                            Junior Member
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 1824

                            #14
                            The church doesn't allow concealed carry in its buildings. Members and visitors should comply with this policy.

                            Comment

                            • ERCougar
                              Junior Member
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 10978

                              #15
                              It's not weird at all that it escalated this quickly. It's actually weird that it didn't go worse.
                              I wasn't there but I'm guessing the cops were a little irritated at the hpgl for doing anything. He really should have just let the meeting dismiss normally and the people file out. It sounds like he wanted to be a bit of a hero. Thank God the CCW guy wasn't there. I work with psychotic people all the time and the last thing you want to give them is attention and a stage.
                              At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                              -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

                              Comment

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