Tithing: pre-tax or post-tax

[Indy Coug]

I tithe on my increase. I don't tithe on what might eventually be an increase or what might be other's increase.

[Moliere]

I pay 10% on whatever interest I earn annually. I'm a letter of the law type of guy. With the low interest rates this year I might end up paying $25.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/119/3-5#3

4 And after that, those who have thus been atithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

On a serious note, my gross/net has pretty much been the same for the past 8 years as my number of children has managed to keep my income tax liability to an amount less than zero. This year that will change and I'll most likely pay on my gross earnings less social security taxes and 401k contributions. I'll pay on those when they become an increase to me at some point down the road.

[Moliere]

Probably the right way to do it is to decide what proportion of your tax dollars go toward your personal "increase."

If your kids attend public schools, you use public roads, you benefit from the police and military, etc. then the proportion of your taxes that go to these endeavors are probably part of your "increase."

On the other hand, the proportion of your taxes that go to entitlements to others could probably be considered to not be part of your "increase" and you could leave that out.

I think this is the right way, but obviously not very practical. But if you can quantify the proportion than more power to you and that is great.

Whatever hits my bank account (which is post tax I guess). I hardly think we need a masters in accounting to figure put what to pay and I got tired of running through 70 different calculations. 401k was easy. When you started looking at health insurance premiums and trying to figure out what the value of various perks were it got stupid.

I think this is the practical way.

We would all define increase differently. I know my inlaws pay tithing on scholarships and grants they got for college. I never did that. I know people that pay tithing on cash gifts they receive. I do that if it comes from a non-member (I know that sounds weird but being a CPA is dislike double taxation of dividends so I naturally abhore double tithation). Some would count benefits from an employer as an increase. It's all debatable but also personal.

[Pheidippides]

It's threads like this that make me think that modern day Mormons are much like the Pharisees of Christ time. I'm afraid he would come down and box us up side the head and for not understanding his message.

I endorse this post. I'm pretty sure the Pharisees would aspire to be us, actually, especially when we parse 900 different types of tea in Japan and the like.

I figure it's supposed to be simple. I ran through the "well, I get the benefit of taxes" thing. But then I started thinking it would be consistent to pay on the health insurance premiums my company pays, on thr vacation days I take (since I get cashed out when I leave) on the savings on discounted car rentals, on lunches that get catered it, etc., for the sake of consistency. So I took the 'soup approach and said f--- it.

[BigFatMeanie]

I tithe on my increase. I don't tithe on what might eventually be an increase or what might be other's increase.

Then obviously the question he's asking is: How do you define your increase?

[CardiacCoug]

I think this is the right way, but obviously not very practical. But if you can quantify the proportion than more power to you and that is great.

I'm not saying I can quantify the proportion, but if I had to define a "letter of the law" on tithing, I think that would be it.

Most people would probably pay on an amount about halfway between gross and net, since part of our taxes go toward our "increase" but part of our taxes don't benefit us at all. You could maybe argue that the wealthy realize an "increase" from a lower proportion of their tax burden than the less-wealthy.

The other question I have wondered about is how people deal with a huge financial loss (like a very expensive illness or with $10K in home repairs after a hurricane) from a tithing perspective. If you pay tithing on an unexpected windfall then should you "tithing-deduct" an unexpected massive financial loss that was outside your control? Something like that seems like the exact opposite of an increase that we would tithe on, but we don't always apply that rule on a household level like we would on a business level. (To clarify, I'm saying you could potentially pay $1000 less in tithing if you take a $10K hit from an illness or home damages.)

And yes I agree that all this is extremely Pharisaical, but still sort of interesting to discuss, at least for me.

[TitheBuster]

IF tithing was appropriate in the Christian Church, God would have given us instructions in His Word.

The letter of the law: Leviticus 27:30-33 - a tenth of the increase OF THE SEED (crops) and every tenth animal in herds and flocks. Numbers 18 - God commands the tithe be taken to the Levites.

Anyone following God's definition for the tithe? Crops and animals, which are assets that come from God's hand, NOT income from man's labor.

Anyone following God's command to take the tithe to the Levites? God never gave any pastor or church permission to receive His tithe.

Church leaders ignore God's definition of His tithe, and ignore God's ordinances for His tithe. They change the words to fit their pocketbook. This is nothing but manipulation of God's Word. They are false teachers.

The Bible CLEARLY SHOWS that the tithe ENDED at the cross in the Book of Hebrews. In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7.

In Hebrews 7:5 we are told that Levi (the Levites) took the tithes under the law. In Hebrews 7:12 we are told that when the priesthood changes, the law will change. Hebrews 7:18 is telling us that Numbers 18 was disannulled. Numbers 18 established the Levitical priesthood, and part of that establishing included tithing. When the Levitical priesthood ended (at Calvary, or at least in the year 70AD when the temple was destroyed), all laws that established that priesthood were canceled. If Numbers 18 wasn't canceled, we would still be under the Levitical priesthood.

Those who argue they didn't have money or income then really need to study the scriptures. They had money and wages, even in Genesis. The farmers had income from barter exchanges, and they had markets to buy and sell as proven in Deuteronomy 14:24-26.

Those who argue Malachi 3:8, robbing God, need to start with verse 7. God is talking about His ordinances in Numbers 18 which we learned were disannulled according to Hebrews 7:18. Also, if you start with Malachi 1, you will see that God is speaking to the priests, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe (Nehemiah 13) and the priests robbed God of the offerings (Malachi 1).

[SCcoug]

aaron shaf?

[il Padrino Ute]

aaron shaf?

That was my first thought too.

[old_gregg]

IF tithing was appropriate in the Christian Church, God would have given us instructions in His Word.

The letter of the law: Leviticus 27:30-33 - a tenth of the increase OF THE SEED (crops) and every tenth animal in herds and flocks. Numbers 18 - God commands the tithe be taken to the Levites.

Anyone following God's definition for the tithe? Crops and animals, which are assets that come from God's hand, NOT income from man's labor.

Anyone following God's command to take the tithe to the Levites? God never gave any pastor or church permission to receive His tithe.

Church leaders ignore God's definition of His tithe, and ignore God's ordinances for His tithe. They change the words to fit their pocketbook. This is nothing but manipulation of God's Word. They are false teachers.

The Bible CLEARLY SHOWS that the tithe ENDED at the cross in the Book of Hebrews. In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7.

In Hebrews 7:5 we are told that Levi (the Levites) took the tithes under the law. In Hebrews 7:12 we are told that when the priesthood changes, the law will change. Hebrews 7:18 is telling us that Numbers 18 was disannulled. Numbers 18 established the Levitical priesthood, and part of that establishing included tithing. When the Levitical priesthood ended (at Calvary, or at least in the year 70AD when the temple was destroyed), all laws that established that priesthood were canceled. If Numbers 18 wasn't canceled, we would still be under the Levitical priesthood.

Those who argue they didn't have money or income then really need to study the scriptures. They had money and wages, even in Genesis. The farmers had income from barter exchanges, and they had markets to buy and sell as proven in Deuteronomy 14:24-26.

Those who argue Malachi 3:8, robbing God, need to start with verse 7. God is talking about His ordinances in Numbers 18 which we learned were disannulled according to Hebrews 7:18. Also, if you start with Malachi 1, you will see that God is speaking to the priests, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe (Nehemiah 13) and the priests robbed God of the offerings (Malachi 1).

At least the trolls are still working hard

Edit: is tithing automatically taken out of the checks of church employees? Do they have the option to just have the church withhold a portion of their direct deposit?

[Indy Coug]

IF tithing was appropriate in the Christian Church, God would have given us instructions in His Word.

You mean through modern-day prophets?

[Coach McGuirk]

Pre tax and post tax. I also give 10% of my auto and travel allowances.

[happyone]

... This year that will change and I'll most likely pay on my gross earnings less social security taxes and 401k contributions. I'll pay on those when they become an increase to me at some point down the road.

This is what I do

[Jacob]

How in the hell did I end up back on cougarboard? Net or gross in this forum? You've got to be kidding me!

[Indy Coug]

Yeah, but you get a more thoughtful, intelligent discussion about it here.