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My Faith: Hard-Core Common Sense

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  • My Faith: Hard-Core Common Sense

    I've been reading process theology for some time now, and have swerved into the likes of Whitehead, Hartshorne, Griffin, and the edited volume by Musser and Paulsen. In doing this, I'm finding a renewed ability to articulate my faith. In an effort to articulate how faith and reason work for me these days, and to help the more orthodox believers on CUF from unreasonably leaping so quickly to metaphysical mysteries (to be honest, the speed and frequency with which some orthodox believers dissemble makes me want to sympathize with their critics), I am going to occasionally post about my journey.

    As a first post, I'm going to introduce the concept of "hard-core common sense." It is one of the backbones of process theology, which itself is becoming more and more important to my thinking and faith. In doing so, I will draw on Griffin's (2007) article in Musser and Paulsen (2007) and on some quotes from Hartshorne.

    So....proceed at your own risk!

    Premise--Hard-Core Common Sense: There are some concepts that we all unavoidably assume, even if our mouths betray them, and these concepts should be accepted as the definitive standard for all systematic thinking--science, philosophy, theology, whatever. As an example, every person unavoidably assumes existence in a world of other things and persons as real as s/he is.

    Discrimination--I discriminate between soft-core common sense beliefs, which later discoveries can nullify, and hard-core common sense beliefs, which later discoveries cannot nullify because they are inevitably presupposed by all people in all their activities, including scientific, philosophical, and theological activities.

    Rejection--On these grounds, I reject determinism—whether by molecules, God, the economy, or anything else—because some measure of freedom is pre-supposed in human practice. The philosopher, scientist, or theologian who professes determinism is “busily engaged in trying to decide what the future is to be as though it were not yet wholly fixed” (Hartshorne, 1937, p. 137). My rejection of determinism is not capricious because determinism violates the logical principle of noncontradiction: Affirming explicitly a doctrine that one is denying implicitly is to affirm self-contradictory doctrines.

    Rejection--Therefore, I also refuse materialistic determinism—the concept that all present events are determined by precursive events—and nihilistic relativism—the concept that no standards exist by which to pronounce some outcomes as better or worse than others. As Hartshorne says, no one can live in terms of such doctrines, so no one really believes them (1962, p. 12).

    Conclusion--If you accept my premise (which you may not, although I will argue that it is a reasonable one), determinism and relativism are out, and room for what I call "faith" is in.
    Last edited by Sleeping in EQ; 09-17-2010, 03:04 PM.
    We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

  • #2
    Thanks. I always assumed you were a relativist because I can never pin you down on what exactly you believe about something, and you surprised me by saying you were not a relativist in a previous thread. So you believe in absolute truth, you just aren't about to share what exactly that truth is?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sleeping in EQ View Post
      I've been reading process theology for some time now, and have swerved into the likes of Whitehead, Hartshorne, Griffin, and the edited volume by Musser and Paulsen. In doing this, I'm finding a renewed ability to articulate my faith. In an effort to articulate how faith and reason work for me these days, and to help the more orthodox believers on CUF from unreasonably leaping so quickly to metaphysical mysteries (to be honest, the speed and frequency with which some orthodox believers dissemble makes me want to sympathize with their critics), I am going to occasionally post about my journey.

      As a first post, I'm going to introduce the concept of "hard-core common sense." It is one of the backbones of process theology, which itself is becoming more and more important to my thinking and faith. In doing so, I will draw on Griffin's (2007) article in Musser and Paulsen (2007) and on some quotes from Hartshorne.

      So....proceed at your own risk!

      Premise--Hard-Core Common Sense: There are some concepts that we all unavoidably assume, even if our mouths betray them, and these concepts should be accepted as the definitive standard for all systematic thinking--science, philosophy, theology, whatever. As an example, every person unavoidably assumes existence in a world of other things and persons as real as s/he is.

      Discrimination--I discriminate between soft-core common sense beliefs, which later discoveries can nullify, and hard-core common sense beliefs, which later discoveries cannot nullify because they are inevitably presupposed by all people in all their activities, including scientific, philosophical, and theological activities.

      Rejection--On these grounds, I reject determinism—whether by molecules, God, the economy, or anything else—because some measure of freedom is pre-supposed in human practice. The philosopher, scientist, or theologian who professes determinism is “busily engaged in trying to decide what the future is to be as though it were not yet wholly fixed” (Hartshorne, 1937, p. 137). My rejection of determinism is not capricious because determinism violates the logical principle of noncontradiction: Affirming explicitly a doctrine that one is denying implicitly is to affirm self-contradictory doctrines.

      Rejection--Therefore, I also refuse materialistic determinism—the concept that all present events are determined by precursive events—and nihilistic relativism—the concept that no standards exist by which to pronounce some outcomes as better or worse than others. As Hartshorne says, no one can live in terms of such doctrines, so no one really believes them (1962, p. 12).

      Conclusion--If you accept my premise (which you may not, although I will argue that it is a reasonable one), determinism and relativism are out, and room for what I call "faith" is in.
      Je pense donc je suis.

      That's about it at the core, then?
      PLesa excuse the tpyos.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks, SIEQ, I look forward to following your posts on this subject.

        Comment


        • #5
          Does this also mean you discard omniscience in God? And is faith therefore inconsistent with omniscience?

          I think the notion of 'hard-core common sense' is attractive but it also seems a bit too convenient, if you know what I mean. And escapes the need for evidence by its own definition, which is a neat trick.

          Also, don't be so quick to judge anyone's 'unreasonable' leap to metaphysics. I don't think one can assume that what is posted is necessarily the complete thought process.
          PLesa excuse the tpyos.

          Comment


          • #6
            Have you read any Gersonides?
            "Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
            The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --Solon

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm not familiar with these writers, so correct me if I'm wrong. Your belief system rests upon the assumption that if X is presupposed by all people, then X should be accepted as axiomatic? And that at least some of these universally held presuppositions are identifiable?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by creekster View Post
                Je pense donc je suis.

                That's about it at the core, then?
                I'll elaborate in future posts, but Descartes was right to begin philosophy with the assertion of "I am."
                We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Babs View Post
                  I'm not familiar with these writers, so correct me if I'm wrong. Your belief system rests upon the assumption that if X is presupposed by all people, then X should be accepted as axiomatic? And that at least some of these universally held presuppositions are identifiable?
                  I appreciate your interest and hope that some of these writers will become more familiar to you as I post.

                  My answer to your question, more or less, is "yes." I'd put it this way: "X" is whatever is presupposed by all people, and therefore "X" is a standard for human belief.

                  When someone claims "Y," but "Y" is not consistent with "X," and "X" is universally presupposed, "Y" is invalidated as per "X," but may remain as "soft-core common sense."

                  I'll say more about identifiability in a later post, but yes, I do think some of these universally held presuppositions are identifiable. The one I asserted as an example will be important to my subsequent musings.
                  Last edited by Sleeping in EQ; 09-18-2010, 08:47 AM.
                  We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                    Have you read any Gersonides?
                    Yes, and like a good professor you are anticipating my as-of-yet unstated conclusion about God and foreknowledge of human acts.

                    I am impressed by the quality of responses thus far. I was hoping to have a discussion like this.
                    We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by creekster View Post
                      Does this also mean you discard omniscience in God? And is faith therefore inconsistent with omniscience?

                      I think the notion of 'hard-core common sense' is attractive but it also seems a bit too convenient, if you know what I mean. And escapes the need for evidence by its own definition, which is a neat trick.

                      Also, don't be so quick to judge anyone's 'unreasonable' leap to metaphysics. I don't think one can assume that what is posted is necessarily the complete thought process.
                      Great questions--I'll take them up in a later post.
                      We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm with you in you premises, but you lost me when you drew your conclusion. Did I miss something?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rosebud View Post
                          I'm with you in you premises, but you lost me when you drew your conclusion. Did I miss something?
                          He omitted some of the details.

                          Rejection of determinism:

                          1. All people behave in such a way that presupposes free will.

                          2. By assumption, if all people act on a certain presupposition, we will accept that presupposition as "hard core" common sense.

                          3. Combining 1 and 2, free will qualifies as "hard core" common sense.

                          4. SiEQ favors hard core common sense.

                          5. So SiEQ accepts the concept of free will and therefore necessarily rejects determinism.

                          His rejection of relativism follows. Assuming people are exercising free will, and assuming people are not acting arbitrarily, then there must be some mechanism by which people are choosing one option over another. That mechanism and nihilist relativism cannot coexist, therefore, SiEQ rejects relativism.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for this post SIEQ. I know I busted your balls a bit in the past trying to get you to explain what it was you were trying to say. This helps a ton.
                            "Nobody listens to Turtle."
                            -Turtle
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rosebud View Post
                              I'm with you in you premises, but you lost me when you drew your conclusion. Did I miss something?
                              You didn't really miss anything. I'll elaborate as I go!
                              We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

                              Comment

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