The Daily Universe -- Defending Proposition 8

[Indy Coug]

Bruce R. McConkie's defiant publication of Mormon Doctrine makes him almost single-handedly responsible for the massive growth in Mormon fundamentalism over the last 50 years. He may have smiled at you when you sang a him, but the fact remains that he did considerable damage to the Church, and he did so in open and brazen defiance to the members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12.

I thought Ezra Taft Benson was responsible for that. Anyone else we need to include in this Scapegoat Parade brought to you by Strawmen, LLP?

[pellegrino]

Bruce R. McConkie's defiant publication of Mormon Doctrine makes him almost single-handedly responsible for the massive growth in Mormon fundamentalism over the last 50 years. He may have smiled at you when you sang a him, but the fact remains that he did considerable damage to the Church, and he did so in open and brazen defiance to the members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12.

and yet they welcomed him with open arms into the fold. In other words, I don't think he is single-handedly responsible for the growth of conservative fundamentalism in the church.

[RobinFinderson]

Hang in there Tim. Stand up to the religious bullies when you have to, but more importantly, find like-minded members (there will be some) and make those people your spiritual family. Church should be about nourishing the spiritual life. Remember, the church exists to support its members, and not the other way around. There is absolutely nothing wrong with recognizing the church's flaws while focusing on those parts that bring you the spiritual sustenance you desire.

[Tim]

The joke wasn't about Mrs. Tim but if you took offense to her somewhat unrelated inclusion in the joke then I'm sorry and will try to keep it more civil.

I don't think you understand how these things work, Eddie Jones. You don't get to mention the words Mrs. Tim, Tim's Wife, Sister Tim, etc., without first having earned my friendship. You don't even get to THINK about Mrs. Tim without first earning my friendship. You may think that just because I joke about Mrs. Tim with others on the board, that it's all fair game, but it's not.

You aren't above being corrected and telling you your head is in the sand is not bullying.

I agree that I'm not above being corrected, but what makes you think you're in a position to correct me? Do you what the word is for people who think it's their place to correct/change/influence people who don't want to be corrected/changed/influenced by them? It's "bully."

[Non Sequitur]

And non-seq has a ton of credibility here because he never says a negative word regarding the church - so if he's going to insult an apostle, the shoe must fit.

I say plenty of positive things about the Church. Growing up in the Church, there were plenty of leaders that I admired and that had an impact on my life. It's one of the things that kept me in the Church for such a long period of time. I wanted to belong to an organization that was led by those kind of people and that had members whose values I shared.

Somewhere along the line, though, the Church and it's membership seemed to reflect less and less the warm, congenial attitudes I admired in those who led the Church when I was young. It became less of a David O. Mckay Church and more of a Joseph Fielding Smith Church.

[Tim]

I thought Ezra Taft Benson was responsible for that. Anyone else we need to include in this Scapegoat Parade brought to you by Strawmen, LLP?

I would lay the paranoid conservativism on President Benson before he was the Prophet -- have you read any of his general conference talks from the 1960s?! However I'd put the weight of Mormon fundamentalism on Elder McConkie and his father-in-law.

[Tim]

and yet they welcomed him with open arms into the fold. In other words, I don't think he is single-handedly responsible for the growth of conservative fundamentalism in the church.

He was called by Harold B. Lee on the death of Joseph Fielding Smith. Harold B. Lee was very close to Joseph Fielding Smith, so it's a lot more likely that he was bringing in a friend's family member than that he was bringing in someone who had served the church well. Goodness gracious, he was all but publicly censured by President McKay for what he wrote and preached.

[Tim]

Hang in there Tim. Stand up to the religious bullies when you have to, but more importantly, find like-minded members (there will be some) and make those people your spiritual family. Church should be about nourishing the spiritual life. Remember, the church exists to support its members, and not the other way around. There is absolutely nothing wrong with recognizing the church's flaws while focusing on those parts that bring you the spiritual sustenance you desire.

I agree with you. Some people here think it's their place, though, to scream in my ear that there's no way the church has flaws.

[Moliere]

I don't think you understand how these things work, Eddie Jones. You don't get to mention the words Mrs. Tim, Tim's Wife, Sister Tim, etc., without first having earned my friendship. You don't even get to THINK about Mrs. Tim without first earning my friendship. You may think that just because I joke about Mrs. Tim with others on the board, that it's all fair game, but it's not.



I agree that I'm not above being corrected, but what makes you think you're in a position to correct me? Do you what the word is for people who think it's their place to correct/change/influence people who don't want to be corrected/changed/influenced by them? It's "bully."

[Indy Coug]

Without referencing your wife, Tim, it's a common expectation that marriage will cause a guy to "settle down" and not be so uppity. Hell, it even happened to Y'zGuy, and that guy was completely Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

[scottie]

Without referencing your wife, Tim, it's a common expectation that marriage will cause a guy to "settle down" and not be so uppity. Hell, it even happened to Y'zGuy, and that guy was completely Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

Indy, what's your excuse then?

Ha ha ha -- I kid, I kid.

[Green Monstah]

Yeah, CUF is overwhelmingly pro Prop 8 -- it's pretty much you and Tim against everybody else. Good call.

Nothing new here, but just for the record: Prop 8 is a huge embarrassment and black eye for the Church. Just when the Church is starting to make some headway in shedding it's racist and polygamist past, we somehow decide to relabel ourselves ourselves in the public eye as "The Church that hates gay people." I don't get it.

There are no rational reasons for being against gay marriage -- the letter writer is correct. Gay people are already living together and having sex. They aren't going to all of a sudden turn straight if we prevent them from getting married. A gay married couple is a closer approximation to the "God-ordained institution of the family" than gay single people could ever be.

I honestly don't understand why we as a Church aren't overwhelmingly PRO gay marriage. We should want people to be monogamous and committed to each other for the long term. It's a good thing.

Ugh. I haven't run a straw poll on Prop. 8 since I joined 3 weeks ago.

[Art Vandelay]

We (and yes I include myself in the collective "we") can be a pissy bunch at times can't we.

[Green Monstah]

I agree with you. Some people here think it's their place, though, to scream in my ear that there's no way the church has flaws.

Pot. Meet. Kettle.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I do find it ironic, though, that you probably did more cyberscreaming here than anyone else.

[Indy Coug]

Indy, what's your excuse then?

Ha ha ha -- I kid, I kid.

You didn't know me before I was married.