Immigration & Prop 8 from an Apostle

[ewth8tr]

No.

Speed limits are regulated by states. Immigration (which isn't happening) is regulated Federally.

And I understand what you are attempting to say, but it is apples and oranges. Not the same but still produce.

Does it really matter if it is federal or state law? If we believe in obeying all the laws of the land, that includes state laws as well as federal, no?

How many of this young men and woman who are here illegally and serving a mission do you think came across by themselves or as adults? I imagine that a vast majority of them were children coming in to the country with their parents. Do you honestly believe that they should be punished and not allowed to serve a mission because of the actions of their parents?

[creekster]

LOL. If the Church wants to be able to charter their own troop units, they have to comply with the BSA regs in order to be recognized by the BSA.

I guaran-fricken-tee you the Church isn't the one keeping the paperwork on molestation training or car insurance.

This is correct and I would even revise the statement slightly. In order to be chartered as a BSA unit the designated leaders must complete the training. In order to qualify for the BSA excess policy of insurance the autos used must have qualifying primary policies and they are not allowed on BSA functions if they don't. IOW, it is not a matter of the church chartering their own units, it is a matter of the Church chartering a BSA unit.

[The_Tick]

Does breaking the speed limit, which is against the law, preclude you from church callings? Serving a mission?

No.

Speed limits are regulated by states. Immigration (which isn't happening) is regulated Federally.

And I understand what you are attempting to say, but it is apples and oranges. Not the same but still produce.

[Indy Coug]

Since the Church called him to be the Scoutmaster, sanctioning the program, then the'yre both.

LOL. If the Church wants to be able to charter their own troop units, they have to comply with the BSA regs in order to be recognized by the BSA.

I guaran-fricken-tee you the Church isn't the one keeping the paperwork on molestation training or car insurance.

[ewth8tr]

Both.

Church required that I comply with BS regs.

If not...I couldn't drive for a campout. (No skin off of my nose) But when you have no involved parents...you have to comply.

Resistance is Futile.

Does breaking the speed limit, which is against the law, preclude you from church callings? Serving a mission?

[wuapinmon]

Are those church standards, or the Boy Scouts of America standards?

Since the Church called him to be the Scoutmaster, sanctioning the program, then the'yre both.

[old_gregg]

You seem to be equating the the leadership with the members at large, so even if your characterization of the membership at large is accurate, you still are talking about a different group of people.

do you honestly believe the first presidency would continue calling undocumented residents on missions if there was a mass outcry against it?

and i was more indicting the opinions of the church outside of the Q12. if you asked a member that supported deporting illegal aliens why we sponsor and send them on missions, what do you think they would say?

[The_Tick]

Both.

Church required that I comply with BS regs.

If not...I couldn't drive for a campout. (No skin off of my nose) But when you have no involved parents...you have to comply.

Resistance is Futile.

[Indy Coug]

To be the YM President I had to take a BS Boy Scout "don't be a kid toucher" class to meet the legal requirement.

I had to verify that I had enough auto insurance as to be "legal" when doing scout shit.

Are those church standards, or the Boy Scouts of America standards?

[Indy Coug]

Calling illegals to serve when a good portion of the church's membership doesn't think they have a right to receive emergency care at a u.s. hospital is baffling

You seem to be equating the the leadership with the members at large, so even if your characterization of the membership at large is accurate, you still are talking about a different group of people.

[old_gregg]

Well, the stuff you just pointed out from your experience were spiritual issues, not legal ones. If you had pointed out illegal stuff you had done, you would have made a better case for your argument.

So just exactly how anal do you want the church to be about being law-abiding? If they clamp down on legal status, what else should they start looking at that they've been conveniently ignoring for awhile?

A close friend was not allowed to serve as a result of a felony resulting from blowing up mailboxes. It was later expunged, but the first presidency thought that was reason to keep him from going.

I did not serve a mission because, even though the "process of repentance" (whatever the hell that means) had been completed, the first presidency still would have had to review my papers. I didn't think that was any of their business. Calling illegals to serve when a good portion of the church's membership doesn't think they have a right to receive emergency care at a u.s. hospital is baffling

[The_Tick]

Well, the stuff you just pointed out from your experience were spiritual issues, not legal ones. If you had pointed out illegal stuff you had done, you would have made a better case for your argument.

So just exactly how anal do you want the church to be about being law-abiding? If they clamp down on legal status, what else should they start looking at that they've been conveniently ignoring for awhile?

You don't have to be anal to make sure you aren't breaking the law.

To be the YM President I had to take a BS Boy Scout "don't be a kid toucher" class to meet the legal requirement.

I had to verify that I had enough auto insurance as to be "legal" when doing scout shit.

The Church does the legal circle jerk when it is going to benefit or protect them.

I understand that there should be a blind eye placed when it comes to baptism numbers and church membership.

Totally understandable.

[wuapinmon]

My dislike for those that abuse immigration is well documented on here.

The fact that the Church call people that are in the country illegally on missions is bothersome.

They are breaking the law.

I almost didn't get to go because I messed around with girls. My Stake President made me wait 3 months after my first interview with him because my "relationship" with my youngest brother wasn't in accordance to the gospel. (We didn't like each other and fist fought frequently.)

So I had to patch shit up with him and wait 3 months for my 2nd interview.

Then...the Church wasn't going to let me serve a mission because I was too fat.

So illegals getting to serve is bullshit.

Tick, I actually agree with you about calling undocumented aliens on missions. To me, that's lending an air of legitimacy to what they're doing while claiming to uphold the law of the land.

As to the Church not allowing fat people to serve, I would've left the Church over that insult. According to current charts that I saw when I was an Exec Sec, I would've been 35 pounds over the "limit."

I got pissed off in Bishopric meeting and had to excuse myself. There were guys in my mission who had done any and everything with a girl other than getting one pregnant, and they got to serve, but I caught crap because I was fat.

[Indy Coug]

My dislike for those that abuse immigration is well documented on here.

The fact that the Church call people that are in the country illegally on missions is bothersome.

They are breaking the law.

I almost didn't get to go because I messed around with girls. My Stake President made me wait 3 months after my first interview with him because my "relationship" with my youngest brother wasn't in accordance to the gospel. (We didn't like each other and fist fought frequently.)

So I had to patch shit up with him and wait 3 months for my 2nd interview.

Then...the Church wasn't going to let me serve a mission because I was too fat.

So illegals getting to serve is bullshit.

Well, the stuff you just pointed out from your experience were spiritual issues, not legal ones. If you had pointed out illegal stuff you had done, you would have made a better case for your argument.

So just exactly how anal do you want the church to be about being law-abiding? If they clamp down on legal status, what else should they start looking at that they've been conveniently ignoring for awhile?

[The_Tick]

What specifically are you referring to here?

My dislike for those that abuse immigration is well documented on here.

The fact that the Church call people that are in the country illegally on missions is bothersome.

They are breaking the law.

I almost didn't get to go because I messed around with girls. My Stake President made me wait 3 months after my first interview with him because my "relationship" with my youngest brother wasn't in accordance to the gospel. (We didn't like each other and fist fought frequently.)

So I had to patch shit up with him and wait 3 months for my 2nd interview.

Then...the Church wasn't going to let me serve a mission because I was too fat.

So illegals getting to serve is bullshit.