Propaganda

[shoganai]

My wife is the ward Girls Camp director this summer. I've spent a few evenings this week up at camp helping her and providing some priesthood support.

The most recent evening was a stake program filled with girly camp songs, skits, etc.

All I can say is, I never realized just how deep and thorough the "marry a good returned missionary" indoctrination runs. I'd heard about it. I'd thought about it, but never seen it in full swing quite like I did tonight all the way from age 12 through 18.

[Tick's wife]

My wife is the ward Girls Camp director this summer. I've spent a few evenings this week up at camp helping her and providing some priesthood support.

The most recent evening was a stake program filled with girly camp songs, skits, etc.

All I can say is, I never realized just how deep and thorough the "marry a good returned missionary" indoctrination runs. I'd heard about it. I'd thought about it, but never seen it in full swing quite like I did tonight all the way from age 12 through 18.

Exactly why girls get screwed when it comes to 'camp'.....it's all brainwashing to get girls to 'have a fulfilling spiritual experience' that emphasizes how to be a better daughter of God so that you find the right return missionary to marry and stay at home and have babies. I'm sure it's very spiritual and the girls feel the spirit but man.....I could go on and on but can't say too much as I'm a convert and I just call it as I see it. No preparation for the world, just to get married (the whole YW program) and be a good mother.

[Moliere]

Exactly why girls get screwed when it comes to 'camp'.....it's all brainwashing to get girls to 'have a fulfilling spiritual experience' that emphasizes how to be a better daughter of God so that you find the right return missionary to marry and stay at home and have babies. I'm sure it's very spiritual and the girls feel the spirit but man.....I could go on and on but can't say too much as I'm a convert and I just call it as I see it. No preparation for the world, just to get married (the whole YW program) and be a good mother.

I agree with what you are saying, but YW camp could be better and more adventurous if the YW leaders want it to be. There is a movement locally to have the YW do something similar to a scouting high adventure and it's gaining some traction. We'll see if it actually happens.

[pellegrino]

Exactly why girls get screwed when it comes to 'camp'.....it's all brainwashing to get girls to 'have a fulfilling spiritual experience' that emphasizes how to be a better daughter of God so that you find the right return missionary to marry and stay at home and have babies. I'm sure it's very spiritual and the girls feel the spirit but man.....I could go on and on but can't say too much as I'm a convert and I just call it as I see it. No preparation for the world, just to get married (the whole YW program) and be a good mother.

Convert or not, I think your vision is 20/20.


Eddie, I think it would be cool to give the YW more autonomy and so I hope that the locals prevail.

[Green Monstah]

My wife is the ward Girls Camp director this summer. I've spent a few evenings this week up at camp helping her and providing some priesthood support.

The most recent evening was a stake program filled with girly camp songs, skits, etc.

All I can say is, I never realized just how deep and thorough the "marry a good returned missionary" indoctrination runs. I'd heard about it. I'd thought about it, but never seen it in full swing quite like I did tonight all the way from age 12 through 18.

My wife just got called to be in YWs, and they're having a three-week series during mutual on "how to be a good wife and mother." For the love of all holy, just let these girls be girls.

I wonder if part of the problem is that many of the leaders are uneducated and opted to have families, so they know no other way (BTW, my wife only has 2 years of college, though I'm trying to get her to finish her degree with BYU's online courses).

[NorthShoreCoug]

Exactly why girls get screwed when it comes to 'camp'.....it's all brainwashing to get girls to 'have a fulfilling spiritual experience' that emphasizes how to be a better daughter of God so that you find the right return missionary to marry and stay at home and have babies. I'm sure it's very spiritual and the girls feel the spirit but man.....I could go on and on but can't say too much as I'm a convert and I just call it as I see it. No preparation for the world, just to get married (the whole YW program) and be a good mother.

Yea, they don't get enough of the "preparation for the world" elsewhere. And they get too much propaganda on the importance of marrying right and being family centered elsewhere, as well.

[ewth8tr]

My wife is the ward Girls Camp director this summer. I've spent a few evenings this week up at camp helping her and providing some priesthood support.

The most recent evening was a stake program filled with girly camp songs, skits, etc.

All I can say is, I never realized just how deep and thorough the "marry a good returned missionary" indoctrination runs. I'd heard about it. I'd thought about it, but never seen it in full swing quite like I did tonight all the way from age 12 through 18.

Wow, thank goodness my wife didn't listen to that, although she did make me start going to church at least

[shoganai]

Yea, they don't get enough of the "preparation for the world" elsewhere. And they get too much propaganda on the importance of marrying right and being family centered elsewhere, as well.

What bothers me about this is that they're not being taught to "marry right." They're being taught to marry an RM. Those are two separate things.

If they were being taught to marry right, I would expect to see and hear more about a boy who is a worthy priesthood holder, respects women, is focused on his education, is committed to supporting a faimly, shows unselfishness and compassion, etc. Maybe some commentary that your odds increase with an RM would be appropriate.

Maybe they get some of that during Sunday lessons. But, listening to their conversations and activities, I have the distinct impression that all the girls hear is "Find a 'good RM.'" My wife has noticed the same thing. In this day and age of high divorce rates, pornography, abuse, and economic competitiveness, we surely need to make sure our girls are a little more wise than that.

[statman]

What bothers me about this is that they're not being taught to "marry right." They're being taught to marry an RM. Those are two separate things.

If they were being taught to marry right, I would expect to see and hear more about a boy who is a worthy priesthood holder, respects women, is focused on his education, is committed to supporting a faimly, shows unselfishness and compassion, etc. Maybe some commentary that your odds increase with an RM would be appropriate.

Maybe they get some of that during Sunday lessons. But, listening to their conversations and activities, I have the distinct impression that all the girls hear is "Find a 'good RM.'" My wife has noticed the same thing. In this day and age of high divorce rates, pornography, abuse, and economic competitiveness, we surely need to make sure our girls are a little more wise than that.

they talk about all that - at least in the two wards where I was in YM and worked with the YW leaders a lot, they talked about it. "Marry an RM" becomes the Readers Digest version of an ongoing discussion on the broader topic. As a proxy variable, it's not a bad start.

Being an RM is by no means a guarantee of ANYTHING. But it least iot shows that at some point around 19 yo, the kid was holding close enough to straight and narrow that he was able to serve, and showed that he was willing to at least nominally follow the law of sacrifice, with or without coercive parents in the background pushing him forward.

For those who've served, there is huge variation on how close to the 'straight and narrow' they were actually living. Ditto for how much of their service was actual sacrifice and how much was mom and dad saying you're out of the house/no college money/etc unless you go on a mission. A kid who slipped in under the radar on worthiness and who's only in the mission field because he's cut-off from mom and dad if he didn't go and who doesn't experience a mighty change while on his mission, likely has no 'beneficial marriage qualities attractive to an LDS woman' (worthy preiesthood holder, temple recommend holder, willing to serve, etc) over a random guy at Church. But again, as a first level proxy variable, being an RM is probably a pretty good place to start. An RM would be more likely than a non-RM to have those 'beneficial marriage qualities attractive to an LDS woman.' But individual results will most definitely vary...

[The_Tick]

Our girls just spoke about girls camp this last week in sacrament.

All the YW made a vow to keep chaste and virtuous until their wedding night.

They then signed a "Chastisty" banner and took their photo in front of it.

The banner and photo have been sent to SLC to show how committed they are.

Now I get what they are trying to do...and I can get behind that. But it is a tad weird.

My daughters wished there would have been more hiking, a little gun shooting...maybe some fishing or swimming.

None of that.

At our girls camp you can't have shorts or cutoffs or capri's. Full length pants. No sweat pants either.

And pajama's had to be full length. No shorts and tshirts. They had to be full length pants and long sleeve shirts. (We can scan the document if anyone doubts.)

[Green Monstah]

Our girls just spoke about girls camp this last week in sacrament.

All the YW made a vow to keep chaste and virtuous until their wedding night.

They then signed a "Chastisty" banner and took their photo in front of it.

The banner and photo have been sent to SLC to show how committed they are.

Now I get what they are trying to do...and I can get behind that. But it is a tad weird.

My daughters wished there would have been more hiking, a little gun shooting...maybe some fishing or swimming.

None of that.

At our girls camp you can't have shorts or cutoffs or capri's. Full length pants. No sweat pants either.

And pajama's had to be full length. No shorts and tshirts. They had to be full length pants and long sleeve shirts. (We can scan the document if anyone doubts.)

Dude, where do you live?? Are they afraid they'll all turn to lesbians if they wear shorts in front of each other?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Oh my. Don't get me started about YW camp. One of my major pet peeves.

You would not believe how big of a production it is in our ward. Some women campaign to be camp director and hold grudges for years if they get replaced.

Every second of camp is scripted. They even have speakers during lunchtime. On the one day they didn't have a speaker, they were assigned to go find someone you didn't know in the stake and sit by them.

You know the little souvenir-reminder things that the YW leaders like to give the girls after every lesson? A little flower or pencil or bookmark or something with a laminated poem or saying to remind the girls of something they learned? One year she came home from camp with a whole duffel bag full of these things. Complete overkill. She threw them all away.

We have a Japanese friend who used to live in our ward. She was an assistant YW leader a few years ago and came up to help in the middle of the week and brought her baby (an extremely well-behaved baby I might add). One of the stake leaders came over and got in her face yelled at her for bringing her baby. She honestly had no idea it was verboten. She was in tears the entire day and had a horrible experience.

When my daughter was a new beehive she had some separation anxiety issues and was worried about camp. My wife thought it might help if she volunteered to come up and help with camp for a few days. She asked the YW pres and she said it would be great. Then the camp director and the other YW leaders got wind of it and had a fit. She was then uninvited. This one blew me away. I told my wife that as a scout and YM leader for many years we were always thrilled to have a dad come along. Forbidding a parent to attend is inconceivable to me.

I could go on and on, but I will stop now.

[Green Monstah]

Oh my. Don't get me started about YW camp. One of my major pet peeves.

You would not believe how big of a production it is in our ward. Some women campaign to be camp director and hold grudges for years if they get replaced.

Every second of camp is scripted. They even have speakers during lunchtime. On the one day they didn't have a speaker, they were assigned to go find someone you didn't know in the stake and sit by them.

You know the little souvenir-reminder things that the YW leaders like to give the girls after every lesson? A little flower or pencil or bookmark or something with a laminated poem or saying to remind the girls of something they learned? One year she came home from camp with a whole duffel bag full of these things. Complete overkill. She threw them all away.

We have a Japanese friend who used to live in our ward. She was an assistant YW leader a few years ago and came up to help in the middle of the week and brought her baby (an extremely well-behaved baby I might add). One of the stake leaders came over and got in her face yelled at her for bringing her baby. She honestly had no idea it was verboten. She was in tears the entire day and had a horrible experience.

When my daughter was a new beehive she had some separation anxiety issues and was worried about camp. My wife thought it might help if she volunteered to come up and help with camp for a few days. She asked the YW pres and she said it would be great. Then the camp director and the other YW leaders got wind of it and had a fit. She was then uninvited. This one blew me away. I told my wife that as a scout and YM leader for many years we were always thrilled to have a dad come along. Forbidding a parent to attend is inconceivable to me.

I could go on and on, but I will stop now.

Similar stuff from EFY. I used to work in the Wilk when I was at BYU, and during EFY, I'd hear the conselors talking when the kids weren't around. They would literally bet who could get more of their classes to cry. I came to the conclusion that EFY mostly amounts to:

1. An emotional overload. They depend so much on making the kids feel emotional stimuli that the kids don't ever really understand how emotion differs from spiritual experience.

2. Rebellious kids whose parents make them go, and they capitilize by making out with (and worse) as my members of the opposite sex as possible. Lest you think I'm crazy, I walked in on a trio of EFYers in the Wilk (one guy, two girls).

[statman]

Similar stuff from EFY. I used to work in the Wilk when I was at BYU, and during EFY, I'd hear the conselors talking when the kids weren't around. They would literally bet who could get more of their classes to cry. I came to the conclusion that EFY mostly amounts to:

1. An emotional overload. They depend so much on making the kids feel emotional stimuli that the kids don't ever really understand how emotion differs from spiritual experience.

2. Rebellious kids whose parents make them go, and they capitilize by making out with (and worse) as my members of the opposite sex as possible. Lest you think I'm crazy, I walked in on a trio of EFYers in the Wilk (one guy, two girls).

"Trek" relies on on the same thing - with a little exaustion, hunger and sleep deprivation thrown in. Creates "The Spirit" when The Spirit really isn't present...

But I know a lot of people love Trek (even here!) and my opinion on it isn't too popular. I can live with that...

[beefytee]

"Trek" relies on on the same thing - with a little exaustion, hunger and sleep deprivation thrown in. Creates "The Spirit" when The Spirit really isn't present...

But I know a lot of people love Trek (even here!) and my opinion on it isn't too popular. I can live with that...

I don't remember a lot of crying (or making out) when I went on trek. I certainly didn't do either. It was more about working together, empathizing and appreciating what was done for us. It was also a lot of fun.