Why Men Hate Church: Programs

[Sleeping in EQ]

"Men don't follow programs; they follow men. A woman may choose a church because of the programs it offers, but a man is looking for another man he can follow. Throughout their lives, men are transformed through encounters with inspiring men. Every successful man will tell you of a father, an uncle, a teacher, a coach, or a sergeant who made the difference in his life. The movies men love often feature an inspirational coach, commander, or teacher. Men are dying for a leader. Every man, regardless of his age, needs another man to look up to and say in his heart, I want to be like him." (p. 59)

The author has a discussion and disclaimer about essentializing and stereotyping. His brush isn't as broad as it seems here (although my cultural studies alarms can't help but ring).

Nevertheless, I think there is some truth in what he is saying (at least in Western culture). Historically, it's easy to see the "wanting to follow Joseph" influence in the early Church.

Sometimes I don't like male Church leaders because I don't want to be like them.

Brethren, when you have thought ill of a Church leader, have you ever had a thought of "I wouldn't follow that guy in any serious situation" or a semi-conscious awareness that a Church leader didn't measure up to the male role models in your life?

I hope the CUF sisters feel welcome to comment too.

[KillerDog]

"Men don't follow programs; they follow men. A woman may choose a church because of the programs it offers, but a man is looking for another man he can follow. Throughout their lives, men are transformed through encounters with inspiring men. Every successful man will tell you of a father, an uncle, a teacher, a coach, or a sergeant who made the difference in his life. The movies men love often feature an inspirational coach, commander, or teacher. Men are dying for a leader. Every man, regardless of his age, needs another man to look up to and say in his heart, I want to be like him." (p. 59)

The author has a discussion and disclaimer about essentializing and stereotyping. His brush isn't as broad as it seems here (although my cultural studies alarms can't help but ring).

Nevertheless, I think there is some truth in what he is saying (at least in Western culture). Historically, it's easy to see the "wanting to follow Joseph" influence in the early Church.

Sometimes I don't like male Church leaders because I don't want to be like them.

Brethren, when you have thought ill of a Church leader, have you ever had a thought of "I wouldn't follow that guy in any serious situation" or a semi-conscious awareness that a Church leader didn't measure up to the male role models in your life?

I hope the CUF sisters feel welcome to comment too.

I believe this might be the most accurate broad brush statement I've ever read.

[The_Tick]

I agree completely.

I would have taken a bullet for my old bishop.

My bishop in Washington and my stake pres? Would have followed them off the cliff if they asked me.

My current setup? Wouldn't get em a glass of water.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree completely.

I would have taken a bullet for my old bishop.

My bishop in Washington and my stake pres? Would have followed them off the cliff if they asked me.

My current setup? Wouldn't get em a glass of water.

You aren't exactly a middle ground kind of guy, are you?

[Scott R Nelson]

Would you mind telling us which book and which author you're quoting there?

[Solon]

Would you mind telling us which book and which author you're quoting there?

It's called [url]Why Men Hate Going to Church by David Murrow.

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showthread.php?t=22385

I read it right after SIEQ posted this but I haven't got around to posting any thoughts on it.

A lot of the book resonated with me; a lot was too generalized. I'll write more when I get a minute.

[LA Ute]

I think the quoted statement is dead-on accurate (add standard disclaimer about how it is a generalization, but generalizations can still be accurate, yada yada yada). My wife (a keen observer of human nature) often comments on how men look for male role models, and on the ones I have chosen over my lifetime. Now that I am on the other side of middle age, however, I find I am not adding new role models as often as I did when I was younger and still making my way.

[SoCalCoug]

"Men don't follow programs; they follow men. A woman may choose a church because of the programs it offers, but a man is looking for another man he can follow. Throughout their lives, men are transformed through encounters with inspiring men. Every successful man will tell you of a father, an uncle, a teacher, a coach, or a sergeant who made the difference in his life. The movies men love often feature an inspirational coach, commander, or teacher. Men are dying for a leader. Every man, regardless of his age, needs another man to look up to and say in his heart, I want to be like him." (p. 59)

The author has a discussion and disclaimer about essentializing and stereotyping. His brush isn't as broad as it seems here (although my cultural studies alarms can't help but ring).

Nevertheless, I think there is some truth in what he is saying (at least in Western culture). Historically, it's easy to see the "wanting to follow Joseph" influence in the early Church.

Sometimes I don't like male Church leaders because I don't want to be like them.

Brethren, when you have thought ill of a Church leader, have you ever had a thought of "I wouldn't follow that guy in any serious situation" or a semi-conscious awareness that a Church leader didn't measure up to the male role models in your life?

I hope the CUF sisters feel welcome to comment too.

That certainly rings true. Makes a great point.

[The_Tick]

You aren't exactly a middle ground kind of guy, are you?

Not generally.

I typically either like you or I don't. I like 95% of the people that I meet. But those 5% typically have no chance.

I know that part of my current lack of interest/enjoyment at Church has to do with my Bishop and Stake President. And I feel bad for my Bishop. Before he was called as Bishop he was a great dude. But now he gets run over by his FIL who is the SP. Our ward is the Stake petrie dish because our Bishop cedes to the SP on every single issue. Our SP does stuff in my ward before even anyone on the HC hears about it. So it really isn't my Bishops fault kinda...

The previous Bishop always used to question the SP on anything that didn't pass the sniff test. I like that in a leader. Those are the ones I don't mind hitching my wagon with.

[wuapinmon]

When I craft survey courses, I have to consciously add female authors to my reading lists because I'm usually not drawn to their work. I make myself step outside my natural tendencies so that I don't skew my students to my personal likes and biases, and to make sure that I've given them a proper exposure to the subject.

My music library is overwhelmingly male. My heroes (Dale Murphy, Pelagius, Roberto Clemente, and Óscar Romero) are all male.

[CJF]

I think that is fairly true in most things, but when it comes to church I want someone I can trust and who has compassion. I'm not looking for inspiration for them for the most part. I'm looking to follow someone who won't make my life more difficult than it needs to be and who is understanding of doubts and problems without over reaction. This might have to do with the fact I never want to be a leader in the church. Work, sports, even movies, I want that inspiration. Someone I can look up to and hope to be some day or might have been in another life. Church, not so much.

[Sleeping in EQ]

A lot of the book resonated with me; a lot was too generalized.

I agree. I'll be posting some snippets from it.

[cowboy]

This is all crap. Men hate church for one reason, and one reason only: Nobody's keeping score.

If you made a contest out of Sacrament Meeting, some would be whispering smack, some would be second-guessing the speakers' strategies, and some would be complaining about the bishop's officiating, but I guarantee every man in the chapel would be paying attention.

[Green Monstah]

I refuse to follow most of my local church leaders (Stake Presidency and just-released Bishop). However, my EQP has a heart of gold and our new bishop is a stand up guy. Our Stake President is a snake (and IMO) a dishonest man.

[RC Vikings]

I thought it was because I would rather be outside doing something or home in front of the TV watching sports and eating something. I would have never guessed "programs". I do like the Primary's Christmas program but the rest suck.