"Mormons need to work to increase favor"

[Ma'ake]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700054363/Mormons-need-to-work-to-increase-favor.html?pg=1

Essentially, pollster Gary Lawrence presents his findings at the FAIR convention that there are pretty high negatives and lack of understanding about Mormons, overall.

I really admire what this guy is doing and I think there are some good ideas, eg, becoming friends with people for the sake of friendship, not viewing non-members only as potential conversion targets.

But IMO it is a pretty substantial challenge, mostly because of how the ideology views non-members and their reason for being. When you're a missionary church the underlying message is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way: "I've found a greater truth and you may benefit from my sharing it with you".

"We've been doing missionary work for 180 years," Lawrence said. "I'd say the delivery vehicles are arriving, but the freight isn't being off-loaded, and that's our fault."

I'd say it's more like the vehicles are arriving, but the shipment isn't being accepted.

[LA Ute]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...avor.html?pg=1

Essentially, pollster Gary Lawrence presents his findings at the FAIR convention that there are pretty high negatives and lack of understanding about Mormons, overall.

I really admire what this guy is doing and I think there are some good ideas, eg, becoming friends with people for the sake of friendship, not viewing non-members only as potential conversion targets.

But IMO it is a pretty substantial challenge, mostly because of how the ideology views non-members and their reason for being. When you're a missionary church the underlying message is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way: "I've found a greater truth and you may benefit from my sharing it with you".

"We've been doing missionary work for 180 years," Lawrence said. "I'd say the delivery vehicles are arriving, but the freight isn't being off-loaded, and that's our fault."

I'd say it's more like the vehicles are arriving, but the shipment isn't being accepted.

Good catch. I know Gary Lawrence and he has devoted many years to this study. He's also a well-regarded pollster. I*hope a lot of Mormons read his book.

And Ma'ake, you know I am your friend despite your lost and fallen ways, regardless of whether you accept my greater truth.

[Ma'ake]

Good catch. I know Gary Lawrence and he has devoted many years to this study. He's also a well-regarded pollster. I*hope a lot of Mormons read his book.

And Ma'ake, you know I am your friend despite your lost and fallen ways, regardless of whether you accept my greater truth.

OXOX, too. LOL

[Katy Lied]

oh brother, who makes friends only with an eye toward missionary work? Maybe back in the 1950s, but not anymore. Certainly not where I live in UT, where people are hesitant to even make regular overtures, knowing that whatever friendly gestures made will be interpreted cynically.

In fact, I think it is very difficult to break into social circles here, simply because everyone here seems to have grown up here, or has family here. They socialize with their families, and their friendships cemented in the second grade. Unlike say, California, where everyone is from somewhere else and time is spent with the most casual work or gym acquaintance.

So yeah, you'll get the bum's rush from the ward mission leader, but everyone else hangs back. And then after you either get baptized or reject baptism, you are left alone.

[pellegrino]

Here's my favorite quote from the article:

"We tend to think people are not beating a path to our door, but they respect what we Mormons are trying to do," Lawrence said. "Baloney. They don't."

There have been many, many occasions where people I interact with in work or social situations have stuck their foot in their mouth and said something derogatory or derisive about Mormons without knowing that I am one. I think that they are speaking their minds.

[il Padrino Ute]

Mormons are too concerned with wanting to be liked. I believe Mormons will get more respect if they tell people to just deal with it. I am who I am and if someone has a problem with me being a Mormon, it's his or her problem.

[Ma'ake]

oh brother, who makes friends only with an eye toward missionary work? Maybe back in the 1950s, but not anymore. Certainly not where I live in UT, where people are hesitant to even make regular overtures, knowing that whatever friendly gestures made will be interpreted cynically.

It is an awkward dance, because underneath any friendly overtures, beyond the cookies, is either an intent, or a suspicion that a conversion effort will eventually ensue. If you're familiar with Utah & LDS culture and know the game, it's easy to keep it light & not be let down. If you're an outsider & non Mormon, you may appreciate the attention & be seduced into thinking the engagement is without agenda. If / when the pitch comes & is rejected, there can be some anger on the part of the subject.

In fact, I think it is very difficult to break into social circles here, simply because everyone here seems to have grown up here, or has family here. They socialize with their families, and their friendships cemented in the second grade. Unlike say, California, where everyone is from somewhere else and time is spent with the most casual work or gym acquaintance.

I think this is largely true, and also because there just isn't a great deal of time to expand social circles. Easy to be insular.

So yeah, you'll get the bum's rush from the ward mission leader, but everyone else hangs back. And then after you either get baptized or reject baptism, you are left alone.

I don't even know who the ward mission leader is - most of the attention my family gets is from the Stake President & Bishop, and from their lead, Relief Society President, Elders Quorum, etc. But I believe it's sinking in that a conversion / reactivation (in my case) ain't gonna happen, so while everyone is still friendly & they wave, the dinner invitations are drying up.

None of this bothers me, because I've been on that side of the fence before. There's no harm intended.

[jay santos]

That's a depressing article. I had no idea we were that unpopular right now. I wonder if this is simply Prop 8 backlash or if it's a deeper problem.

"We tend to think people are not beating a path to our door, but they respect what we Mormons are trying to do," Lawrence said. "Baloney. They don't."

He found that Americans have a 37 percent favorable and a 49 percent unfavorable impression. By contrast, Jewish people have almost a 7-to-2 positive-to-negative ratio, and the proportion for Catholics is almost 2-to-1 favorable.

[Green Monstah]

oh brother, who makes friends only with an eye toward missionary work? Maybe back in the 1950s, but not anymore. Certainly not where I live in UT, where people are hesitant to even make regular overtures, knowing that whatever friendly gestures made will be interpreted cynically.

In fact, I think it is very difficult to break into social circles here, simply because everyone here seems to have grown up here, or has family here. They socialize with their families, and their friendships cemented in the second grade. Unlike say, California, where everyone is from somewhere else and time is spent with the most casual work or gym acquaintance.

So yeah, you'll get the bum's rush from the ward mission leader, but everyone else hangs back. And then after you either get baptized or reject baptism, you are left alone.

I disagree with you. I've unfortunately witnessed lots of people who will make friends with non-LDS, and when the non-LDS doesn't jump in and convert, their friendship (at the very least) changes...and sometimes ends. It happened in my last ward and it's sad.

[Eddie]

There's a woman I work with who generally likes those of us she works with, but has some pretty negative views of others based on their actions - some that are in line with the idea of being friends for conversion purposes.

When she and her husband moved into a new home the ward mission leader stopped by and visited them. Then he told them that they have a "birthday club" in the neighborhood and he asked for their birthdates to include them.

She gave it to them, but they haven't received a birthday card even once. I'm fairly certain that the guy uses that hook so that they can look up records and see if someone who says they aren't LDS are on the records and just inactive.

She was talking with me about it once and basically made the comment "Don't you think people who lie in Jesus' name are going to hell?"

To be honest with you, I had a hard time disagreeing with her premise.

[jay santos]

There's a woman I work with who generally likes those of us she works with, but has some pretty negative views of others based on their actions - some that are in line with the idea of being friends for conversion purposes.

When she and her husband moved into a new home the ward mission leader stopped by and visited them. Then he told them that they have a "birthday club" in the neighborhood and he asked for their birthdates to include them.

She gave it to them, but they haven't received a birthday card even once. I'm fairly certain that the guy uses that hook so that they can look up records and see if someone who says they aren't LDS are on the records and just inactive.

She was talking with me about it once and basically made the comment "Don't you think people who lie in Jesus' name are going to hell?"

To be honest with you, I had a hard time disagreeing with her premise.

Or it could be the WML got released before any of them had birthdays.

Or it could be the WML got motivated and implemented the "birthday club" and then fizzled out and gave up in it.

[BigFatMeanie]

There's a woman I work with who generally likes those of us she works with, but has some pretty negative views of others based on their actions - some that are in line with the idea of being friends for conversion purposes.

When she and her husband moved into a new home the ward mission leader stopped by and visited them. Then he told them that they have a "birthday club" in the neighborhood and he asked for their birthdates to include them.

She gave it to them, but they haven't received a birthday card even once. I'm fairly certain that the guy uses that hook so that they can look up records and see if someone who says they aren't LDS are on the records and just inactive.

She was talking with me about it once and basically made the comment "Don't you think people who lie in Jesus' name are going to hell?"

To be honest with you, I had a hard time disagreeing with her premise.

I would agree with your colleague that people who lie in Jesus' name are going to hell. Where does your colleague think people who lie and say they aren't Mormon, yet refuse to take the step of formally disassociating themselves from the Mormon church, are going?

[Eddie]

I would agree with your colleague that people who lie in Jesus' name are going to hell. Where does your colleague think people who lie and say they aren't Mormon, yet refuse to take the step of formally disassociating themselves from the Mormon church, are going?

I'm not sure she cares where people who say they aren't Mormon when they haven't formally disassociated themselves from the Mormon church end up. She would probably describe that as wrong, but not at the same level as lying in Jesus name.

She is Methodist. Has been her entire life. Both of her parents are Methodists. Her family moved to Utah when she was in highschool. I don't know as much about her husband's history - other than to say that as far as I know has never been LDS.

[Eddie]

Or it could be the WML got released before any of them had birthdays.

Or it could be the WML got motivated and implemented the "birthday club" and then fizzled out and gave up in it.

These are both possible. And a birthday club certainly is a great way to make sure that you visit every family at least once a year - maintaining some contact.

I'm not saying that the guy wasn't good intentioned. I am saying that when good intentions fizzle there is a fallout and the consequences can be viewed as pretty bad from another's perspective. In this instance, she saw it as cleary church related and having nothing to do with the neighborhood.

This was more a commentary on the fact that I have annecdotal evidence as to why some folks see some Mormon's in a less than favorable light than on what the WML did right or wrong.

[Pheidippides]

So yeah, you'll get the bum's rush from the ward mission leader, but everyone else hangs back. And then after you either get baptized or reject baptism, you are left alone.

And this is a sad commentary on the motivations. Only too often it seems like we (collectively) are more interested in counting coup over our converts than we are in sharing happiness with our friends.