Prop 8 Has Been Overturned

[The Fourth Nephite]

Just heard on the radio that a gay Federal Judge just overturned Proposition 8.

[LiveCoug]

Not shocking.

[falafel]

Damn it! Its two months too late! We could have really used this when the Pac 10 was picking schools.

[LA Ute]

Not shocking.

The surprise would have been if the judge did not overturn Prop 8.

It was a federal district judge, by the way, not the California Supreme Court.

This is a federal district judge - a trial court judge - who is trying to make law. Right now there is no Constitutional law precedent supporting such a ruling. Eventually the U.S. Supreme Court will have to decide it. If the Court decided the issue today it would probabaly be a 5-4 decision upholding Prop 8. I guess what the plaintiffs are hoping is that someone on the Supreme Court among the 5-member majority leaves (dies) and Obama gets to appoint a justice.

It's kind of interesting to contemplate a 5-4 U.S. Supreme Court decision finding a Constitutional right to same-sex marriage. The response to that would make the Roe v. Wade controversy look like a kids' birthday party. (Brown v. Board of Education and U.S. v. Nixon were 9-0. Bush v. Gore was 5-4.)

[The Fourth Nephite]

I'm not suprised it was overturned. I feel bad for all the LDS in California that took crap for Prop 8. I know at least one guy lost his job over it.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

The surprise would have been if the judge did not overturn Prop 8.

It was a federal district judge, by the way, not the California Supreme Court.

This is a federal district judge - a trial court judge - who is trying to make law. Right now there is no Constitutional law precedent supporting such a ruling. Eventually the U.S. Supreme Court will have to decide it. If the Court decided the issue today it would probabaly be a 5-4 decision upholding Prop 8. I guess what the plaintiffs are hoping is that someone on the Supreme Court among the 5-member majority leaves (dies) and Obama gets to appoint a justice.

It's kind of interesting to contemplate a 5-4 U.S. Supreme Court decision finding a Constitutional right to same-sex marriage. The response to that would make the Roe v. Wade controversy look like a kids' birthday party. (Brown v. Board of Education and U.S. v. Nixon were 9-0. Bush v. Gore was 5-4.)

It won't make it to the Supreme Court. The Ninth Circuit won't hesitate overrule this decision. The Ninth Circuit hates to be reversed by the Supreme Court.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It's kind of interesting to contemplate a 5-4 U.S. Supreme Court decision finding a Constitutional right to same-sex marriage. The response to that would make the Roe v. Wade controversy look like a kids' birthday party. (Brown v. Board of Education and U.S. v. Nixon were 9-0. Bush v. Gore was 5-4.)

You think people feel more threatened by gay marriage than abortion? Yikes.

[LA Ute]

It won't make it to the Supreme Court. The Ninth Circuit won't hesitate overrule this decision. The Ninth Circuit hates to be reversed by the Supreme Court.

I hope you are right, but the Ninth hasn't shown much reluctance to be reversed (or has it? I haven't been watching them closely for a while).

[LA Ute]

You think people feel more threatened by gay marriage than abortion? Yikes.

I think the "freak out" factor will be higher, that's all, with greater indignation. I do not see it that way myself, not even close.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I hope you are right, but the Ninth hasn't shown much reluctance to be reversed (or has it? I haven't been watching them closely for a while).

It was a poor attempt by me at humor. There's no way in hell the Ninth Circuit is reversing this decision. They may as well rubber stamp this baby so they can ship it off to the Supreme Court.

[scandell]

I know at least one guy lost his job over it.

+1

[Art Vandelay]

My 6th grader came home today and told me he heard this while on a trip to Boston, listening to a Yankee game on his transistor radio, when he heard about the prop 8 decision. He said this is a day he will remember in 30 years...

[Color Me Badd Fan]

BTW, here's a mediamatters.org column from five years ago about O'Reilly screwing with the viewing public by mentioning that the Ninth Circuit gets overturned at a higher clip than any other appellate court. They really served up a facial on O'Reilly by showing that the 1st, 2nd and 10th had higher reversal rates than the 9th.

It was also nice of them to show that chart with the total cases heard from each circuit and the reversal rates. I'm sure everyone feels great about the Ninth Circuit after seeing that the SC heard a grand total of nine cases from the 1st, 2nd and 10th Circuits combined compared to 19 cases for the Ninth Circuit alone. But hey, the 1st, 2nd and 10th Circuits had higher reversal rates! O'Reilly's full of shit. Who cares that the SC heard, on average, five cases from the other Circuits compared to 19 from the Ninth Circuit.

Thanks mediamatters for clearing that one up. It's great when you put Fox News in their place.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200512150016

[statman]

BTW, here's a mediamatters.org column from five years ago about O'Reilly screwing with the viewing public by mentioning that the Ninth Circuit gets overturned at a higher clip than any other appellate court. They really served up a facial on O'Reilly by showing that the 1st, 2nd and 10th had higher reversal rates than the 9th.

It was also nice of them to show that chart with the total cases heard from each circuit and the reversal rates. I'm sure everyone feels great about the Ninth Circuit after seeing that the SC heard a grand total of nine cases from the 1st, 2nd and 10th Circuits combined compared to 19 cases for the Ninth Circuit alone. But hey, the 1st, 2nd and 10th Circuits had higher reversal rates! O'Reilly's full of shit. Who cares that the SC heard, on average, five cases from the other Circuits compared to 19 from the Ninth Circuit.

Thanks mediamatters for clearing that one up. It's great when you put Fox News in their place.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200512150016

Splitting hairs. "Overturned more than any other Circuit Court" woud have been perfectly accurate. He used the wrong word. The meaning is still the same. The court chose to hear more than 3X as many cases from teh 9th than from any other court is alone an indictment - they go out on the edge of jurisprudence a lot more than any other court.

He was wrong to use the word "rate," but is charge against the 9th Circuit remains intact...

[Jacob]

I find many parts of the Judges opinion laughable:

A few excerpts:

"The evidence at trial regarding the campaign to pass Proposition 8 uncloaks the most likely explanation for its passage: a desire to advance the belief that opposite-sex couples are morally superior to same-sex couples. FF 79-80."

Isn't that exactly backwards? Rather than Prop 8 being about heterosexuals asserting their moral superiority, isn't this really all about the same-sex couples asserting the moral equivalency of their relationship? After all, it is the same-sex marriage people who are trying to change the law, not the traditionalists.

From that perspective, the judges reasoning leads to the opposite conclusion that she reached. See this:

The arguments surrounding Proposition 8 raise a question similar to that addressed in Lawrence, when the Court asked whether a majority of citizens could use the power of the state to enforce “profound and deep convictions accepted as ethical and moral principles” through the criminal code. 539 US at 571

Lets leave aside for the moment the many differences between this and a criminal statute like Lawrence. the Judge says:

The question here is whether California voters can enforce those same principles through regulation of marriage licenses. They cannot.

Yet that's exactly what she just did. She has decided to enforce and advance her moral and ethical principals through regulation of marriage licenses. It just so happens that, contrary to the views of the majority of Californians and Americans, her moral judgment is that same sex unions are morality equivalent to traditional marriages.

Tradition alone cannot support legislation

But apparently non-traditional and new-found, but not generally accepted, liberal views of what marriage and homosexuality should be can support legislation from the bench.

What is left is evidence that Proposition 8 enacts a moral view that there is something “wrong” with same-sex couples.

What is left, is evidence that the prior California supreme court and now this federal court have enacted a moral view that there is something "wrong" with traditional marriage.

It's amazing what we let judges get away with.