I learned in church today

[Jacob]

This makes me sad for the lady making these rules. Think about how much self-loathing you must have if you feel it necessary to tell a bunch of young women not to touch their legs or stomach simply because this poor woman had an MB "issue" and thinks is akin to fornicating with her self.

I'm guessing the prohibition of touching one's own stomach, back, and legs has been greatly exaggerated.

[Green Monstah]

Lol. It's nestled in a nice place. It's surrounded by fields and horse property, which is surrounded by ghetto.

[NorthwestUteFan]

However well intentioned, wow. Just wow.

Brutal. I wonder if that bishop also believes a rape can be 'justified', somewhat, because the victim wore revealing clothes?

Or maybe he was the pastor in Footloose.

Romantic interaction is a continuum and is somewhat acquired behavior. Just like I don't think it's appropriate for 14 year olds to start having sex, I don't think it's appropriate for 18 year olds to not know how to have a good make out session. Or something like that.

Considering the founder of this religion secretly married one 14 year-old girl, two 16 year-old girls, and 11 women who were already married (33 total), perhaps we are swinging the pendulum too far the opposite direction?

The truth is, the guilt we push on the youth can be far more damaging to their emotional health than would be caused by telling them it is OK to occasionally rub one out.

[Moliere]

Lol. It's nestled in a nice place. It's surrounded by fields and horse property, which is surrounded by ghetto.

You do realize that the air conditioning units in that building have been stolen multiple times right? That building scares me. In fact, most places near or south of 1960 are not places I want to be running around at night and sometimes during the day.

[Pheidippides]

I'm guessing the prohibition of touching one's own stomach, back, and legs has been greatly exaggerated.

You are guessing incorrectly.

[Omaha 680]

Yesterday we had a youth speaker talk about receiving the priesthood. He is the son of Sudanese immigrants and comes from a single-parent home. All his family are converts of only a few years. His talk was simple and lasted less than a minute but he was brave and sincere and I was proud of him.

We then had a couple give two of the best talks on forgiveness I have ever heard. Both shared personal experiences including helping a daughter escape and an abusive marriage and being swindled by a business associate early in their marriage. I came away truly inspired to be more forgiving of those who have wronged me. It was the best sacrament meeting I have been to in a while.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Niku, your stake is weird.

[Pheidippides]

Niku, your stake is weird.

Yeah, although in different ways than the other weird stakes I've lived in. I don't see a lot of common sense or experience speaking here. And the HC is populated by fundies.

It's like nobody has ever used google before. But my bishop is a good and understanding man, so I have that going for me. I get scared when I worry about his replacement.

[Eddie]

This reminds me of an experience that I had with a close friend several years ago. Before knowing her, my friend, who was raised LDS but not active at the time, had been in a Salt Lake City club, and had some ass hat put something, a LOT of something, in her drink. She ended up unconscious on the club floor, rushed to the hospital and ended up spending a week in a coma, and several months in the hospital. When I met her several years later, she still had some lingering heart issues.

So, in my time of knowing her and in no effort of my own, she decides that she would like to start attending church again. She meets with her bishop and begins the formal repentance process from several years of "worldly living" and is starting to gain a little bit of confidence in her relationship with her and the church. I get a call from her in hysterics one day telling me that she tried, but that she was done. After getting a few more of the details from her, the bishop had apparently asked if she would be willing to do a fireside with the youth. When she asked what the topic was, he essentially told her that he'd like her to present to the youth all of the health issues that she's had due to the poor decision she had made in being in that club.

However well intentioned, wow. Just wow.

Maybe next you could have Elizabeth Smart come and speak on the dangers of sleeping in your own bed at night.

Yesterday we had a youth speaker talk about receiving the priesthood. He is the son of Sudanese immigrants and comes from a single-parent home. All his family are converts of only a few years. His talk was simple and lasted less than a minute but he was brave and sincere and I was proud of him.

We then had a couple give two of the best talks on forgiveness I have ever heard. Both shared personal experiences including helping a daughter escape and an abusive marriage and being swindled by a business associate early in their marriage. I came away truly inspired to be more forgiving of those who have wronged me. It was the best sacrament meeting I have been to in a while.

These are the kinds of meetings I love.

Yesterday we heard from the High Counsel. It wasn't particularly good or bad, pretty average. Of course, I've decided that if I really try I can find a good message in any talk. Yesterday I wasn't really trying...

[Goatnapper'96]

Yesterday we had a youth speaker talk about receiving the priesthood. He is the son of Sudanese immigrants and comes from a single-parent home. All his family are converts of only a few years. His talk was simple and lasted less than a minute but he was brave and sincere and I was proud of him.

We then had a couple give two of the best talks on forgiveness I have ever heard. Both shared personal experiences including helping a daughter escape and an abusive marriage and being swindled by a business associate early in their marriage. I came away truly inspired to be more forgiving of those who have wronged me. It was the best sacrament meeting I have been to in a while.

Good post. I don't keep a journal but if I did I had a couple of inspiring thoughts my past stake conference. One was a gal who was raised LDS but drifted away for a long time and adopted many habits that the LDS Church discourages and even prevents temple attendance if not overcome. Circumstances forced her to live with her parents for her two daughters' formative years. The daughters were exposed to the Church through their grandparents and adopted the lifestyle. The lady spoke of sitting outside the temple when her daughters were married. It was interesting as she spoke of the guilt she felt and the personal disapointment. What hit me was at one point she said she knew the Church was true in that she believed the Joseph Smith story but did not really have a testimony that she was a child of God. When she really became to know that she was a child of God, came to know God on a more personal and intimate level then she found the willpower and discipline to make the changes in her life neccesary. One aspect I love about the Christian message is how optimistic it is. Her story really resonated with me because the guilt and shame and personal disapointment had no real influence on her behavior, but a genuine conviction that God lives and was aware of her individual life and circumstances did.

Story 2 was a story the Stake President told about an elders quorum that consisted of mostly law school students. He said that students of law often become disenchanted with the world being black and white and begin to view the world through many shades of gray. Most of them are also whining faggots and if they live in the state of Ohio words cannot describe the level of stringpullingitis they will attain. I digress. One of the law school students, who had grown up in a rural community (such as Price, UT) before becoming a POS lawyer in training, had been promised a calf to raise for a 4-H project by his father. At the birth the mother cow tried to kill the calf when it was born by sitting her fat ass right on top of the calf. The little boy ran in to save his calf and tried to do all in his power to resucitate it. He eventually prayed and of course this is Stake Conference so it was a faith inspiring story of the calf living. The comment the law school student then offered is something I will think much about for a very long time. He said: "I don't know if I would look at that event the same way today if it were to happen to me again. I would likely ascribe it to some metric of chance and not particularly think it an act of God. I am not so sure if that is a good or bad thing."

[Green Monstah]

You do realize that the air conditioning units in that building have been stolen multiple times right? That building scares me. In fact, most places near or south of 1960 are not places I want to be running around at night and sometimes during the day.

You need to man up a bit Moliere if you're really that scared (Disclaimer: though I didn't realize it at the time, I went to high school in a very ghetto area of Phoenix, so it takes a lot to scare me.) Actually, I used to be in that stake and had to endure stake conference with no AC for that very reason.

[Spicy McHaggis]

The Stake President gave a boilerplate talk claiming, among other things, that there are great horrors awaiting those who become inactive. These things include alcoholism, drug abuse, loose sexual standards and STDs, crime, etc. He gave several examples of people who fell into 'sin and debauchery' by leaving the church.

He went on to claim it is our responsibility as members to avoid leaving the church lest we fall into these traps of the Devil. And we as parents are required to force our kids to remain faithful for the duration of their lives to avoid the same fate.

I thank God daily that the church is around to save the world from Mormons who, without the church, would otherwise do horrible things to others.

Whatever happened to valuing 'free agency'? Are we not taught to search out an answer, study it in our minds, make a decision, then pray to know if that choice is correct? If so, didn't God give Man a brain to make such decisions? And if Man has a God-given brain, and is taught to make choices, then why are we subsequently told that if we become inactive in church that ALL of the bad things in life will happen to us?

I believe we should preach compassion for those who leave the church, and NOT shun them. Sometimes it just doesn't 'work out'. Sometimes people believe the gospel is simply different from the teachings of the church. And some members are wrong to believe that people ONLY leave the church because of some personal moral failing or desire to sin. I don't know why the SP would in effect preach precisely this faulty line of logic.

They are demonizing the inactive to scare the fence sitters.

[Moliere]

You need to man up a bit Moliere if you're really that scared (Disclaimer: though I didn't realize it at the time, I went to high school in a very ghetto area of Phoenix, so it takes a lot to scare me.) Actually, I used to be in that stake and had to endure stake conference with no AC for that very reason.

I'm not scared. I'm just looking out for you.

[NorthwestUteFan]

They are demonizing the inactive to scare the fence sitters.

Yup. Many of the TBMs in the crowd would never question the logic. Still it is disingenuous.

[Pheidippides]

Niku, your stake is weird.

I have just been informed that the instructions in question did not come from my stake.

They came from the stake that my stake split off of, and were given to youth for three stakes.

I am not sure I feel better about this.

Edit: Also, Green Monstah, that Hafer Rd. building is not a place I'd like to hang out after dark either. But the one I'm thinking about is arguably worse.