When my testimony started heading south

[scottie]

I'm pretty sure this is when things started changing for me, when my faith crisis began: Once I opened my mind to the possibility that my religious beliefs could be wrong, that there could be validity in the way non-Mormons saw things, that is when I ceased to be certain about anything. Do any of you actually have beliefs you are certain of that you simultaneously feel may be wrong?

[FN Phat]

This may sound very cliche but this is how I feel: If what I believe and live is not right/true in the end... I am still a better person for it. Could I say that about another religion? Sure. I do know that being mormon has kept me in line with where I feel I need to be, it has kept me grounded.

[UtahDan]

Utah to the Pac 10 would be an example of this for me.

[Portland Ute]

Utah to the Pac 10 would be an example of this for me.

lol. Well played.

[Lost Student]

I'm pretty sure this is when things started changing for me, when my faith crisis began: Once I opened my mind to the possibility that my religious beliefs could be wrong, that there could be validity in the way non-Mormons saw things, that is when I ceased to be certain about anything. Do any of you actually have beliefs you are certain of that you simultaneously feel may be wrong?

I think your last sentence is a pretty decent explanation of what faith means to me-- I feel certain it must be right even though I have doubts (that come and go) and can never see absolute proof. As long as I can remember, I've always considered the possibility that my beliefs are not true, but still had some degree of certainty that they are.

I think this certainty comes at least from my desire that my beliefs would be true--I want to believe, and so I do. So where does this desire come from? I'm not sure, but probably it has to do with the fact that I have grown up as an active Mormon and my current beliefs have been a large part of my life. It also probably comes from, like Phat says, a realization that my beliefs are good for me--brings me happiness, helps me be a better dad and husband, gives me a sense of belonging and purpose etc.

Of course, I have had much less doubt ever since South Park told me that Mormons are the correct answer.

Alma ch. 32 is one of my favorite chapters in all the scriptures, BTW.

On a side note, when you say you realized that "there could be validity in the way non-Mormons saw things," it makes me think that you exaggerate your past feelings. I doubt you saw things in such black and white terms at the time. Did you honestly believe that there could be no validity in the way non-Mormons saw things?

[Non Sequitur]

This may sound very cliche but this is how I feel: If what I believe and live is not right/true in the end... I am still a better person for it. Could I say that about another religion? Sure. I do know that being mormon has kept me in line with where I feel I need to be, it has kept me grounded.

I hear this rationale a lot, but I don't get it. Why does one need a religion to live right and be happy? Are you saying you couldn't be a good person if you weren't a Mormon?

[il Padrino Ute]

I hear this rationale a lot, but I don't get it. Why does one need a religion to live right and be happy? Are you saying you couldn't be a good person if you weren't a Mormon?

My answer to this would be that it's not about being a Mormon or a non-Mormon or not aligning with any religion, but in my case (and I'm guessing FN's case as well) that I was born and raised having Mormonism as a moral compass - so to speak - and it has served me well in teaching me how to be a good person. The same would apply to anyone of any other religious affiliation or no affiliation whatsoever. I could be a good person no matter - I just happen to be a Mormon.

[scottie]

...

On a side note, when you say you realized that "there could be validity in the way non-Mormons saw things," it makes me think that you exaggerate your past feelings. I doubt you saw things in such black and white terms at the time. Did you honestly believe that there could be no validity in the way non-Mormons saw things?

Validity in the way non-Mormons saw things related to my Mormon beliefs -- e.g., a non-Mormon viewing JS as a fraud and me viewing that as invalid. That's absolutely how I felt pre-loss of testimony, no exaggeration; I was certain JS was who/what he claimed to be.

[FN Phat]

My answer to this would be that it's not about being a Mormon or a non-Mormon or not aligning with any religion, but in my case (and I'm guessing FN's case as well) that I was born and raised having Mormonism as a moral compass - so to speak - and it has served me well in teaching me how to be a good person. The same would apply to anyone of any other religious affiliation or no affiliation whatsoever. I could be a good person no matter - I just happen to be a Mormon.

This is pretty much my point. For me it is Mormonism. I am not saying it is one religion over another or that it has to be a religion for others but my response was what works for me.

[mUUser]

My answer to this would be that it's not about being a Mormon or a non-Mormon or not aligning with any religion, but in my case (and I'm guessing FN's case as well) that I was born and raised having Mormonism as a moral compass - so to speak - and it has served me well in teaching me how to be a good person. The same would apply to anyone of any other religious affiliation or no affiliation whatsoever. I could be a good person no matter - I just happen to be a Mormon.

Nice explanation. Nothing there I can't agree with -- yet at the same time, I'm befuddled by some of the complete nonsense I have to deal with in the church.

For example, appearantly, my daughters cannot go to girls camp and swim without an uncomfortable (so I'm told by all females in my house) one-piece suit. Fine -- I say -- let's just get a tankini that covers your tummy. Nope -- they say -- isn't allowed. After checking with youth leaders & the Bishop last night, it turns out they're correct -- if a girl wears a tankini at youth camp, they have to have it sewn to, or othwise connected with the bottoms.

This is just lunacy folks. And, that's just one of many hard-handed, completely unnecessary rules that drive me insane.

[Moliere]

I'm pretty sure this is when things started changing for me, when my faith crisis began: Once I opened my mind to the possibility that my religious beliefs could be wrong, that there could be validity in the way non-Mormons saw things, that is when I ceased to be certain about anything. Do any of you actually have beliefs you are certain of that you simultaneously feel may be wrong?

Why were you certain at any time about anything that deals with the church? At what point in Mormon thinking did "questioning" and "doubt" get replaced with "certainty" and "knowing"? Church principles and doctrine should be founded on faith, not certainty.

I'm suspecting that this is another one of those stories where someone went through seminary and sunday school hearing the "white-washed" stories of church history and doctrine and then later found out that not everything worked exactly as they were told.

[Indy Coug]

"Did our hearts not burn within us?" Forgive a trite response, but certainty doesn't come from history books, it comes from continually seeking the guidance of and confirmation from the Spirit.

I've attended a lot of different faiths, particularly with friends during my HS years, and the difference as far as the Spirit goes was very stark; even for an ignorant teen who wasn't all that into church and didn't have his mom and dad around during those years to keep him on the straight and narrow. I found it very enlightening.

The Gospel isn't the Word of Wisdom. It isn't polygamy, it isn't who is and isn't allowed to have the priesthood. It isn't whether or not you pass the sacrament with your right hand, it isn't tattoos, body piercings, aboriginal haplotypes, source material for temple ceremonial scripts, translation techniques or overly dogmatic parents, EQPs, HPGs, RS presidents, bishops or SPs.

A loss of faith represents a loss of contact with the Spirit to one degree or another for any number of reasons. It's really that simple.

The Gospel isn't true because Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, my parents, church periodicals, history books, missionaries or Steve Young told me so; it's because the Spirit has repeatedly told me so, and I've never found the promptings of the Spirit has led me astray on those occasions where I actually chose to follow them. I don't believe there is anything particularly special about me and what kind of a person I am that entitles me to any more communication from God through the Spirit than anyone else here on this board or elsewhere.

[Goatnapper'96]

I'm pretty sure this is when things started changing for me, when my faith crisis began: Once I opened my mind to the possibility that my religious beliefs could be wrong, that there could be validity in the way non-Mormons saw things, that is when I ceased to be certain about anything. Do any of you actually have beliefs you are certain of that you simultaneously feel may be wrong?

My bet is if you weren't raised in such a homoganeous LDS community, or a more perfect one such as the Beloved Rockland Valley, you might still believe. Growing up as a minority I never imagined others' perspective on Joseph Smith or any other LDS value as invalid. When those of the same belief structure live in such close proximity to each other without any external tempering it seems that the more extreme perspectives are able to thrive. Statistically speaking my guess is the majority stay with that belief system under that model, but for those from that background who open their minds it can be a pandora's box and create a faith crisis. I think that is a good thing in most cases as it forces folks to really figure out what they believe.

Saying that I have never doubted the Joseph Smith story but I think I was able to never imbue upon him an aura of being beyond human so as I became aware of his foibles and shortcomings it never shook my core belief in his mission. But in my case that is just part of the picture of my faith. Especially as I get older.

[Borg]

"Did our hearts not burn within us?" Forgive a trite response, but certainty doesn't come from history books, it comes from continually seeking the guidance of and confirmation from the Spirit.

I've attended a lot of different faiths, particularly with friends during my HS years, and the difference as far as the Spirit goes was very stark; even for an ignorant teen who wasn't all that into church and didn't have his mom and dad around during those years to keep him on the straight and narrow. I found it very enlightening.

The Gospel isn't the Word of Wisdom. It isn't polygamy, it isn't who is and isn't allowed to have the priesthood. It isn't whether or not you pass the sacrament with your right hand, it isn't tattoos, body piercings, aboriginal haplotypes, source material for temple ceremonial scripts, translation techniques or overly dogmatic parents, EQPs, HPGs, RS presidents, bishops or SPs.

A loss of faith represents a loss of contact with the Spirit to one degree or another for any number of reasons. It's really that simple.

The Gospel isn't true because Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, my parents, church periodicals, history books, missionaries or Steve Young told me so; it's because the Spirit has repeatedly told me so, and I've never found the promptings of the Spirit has led me astray on those occasions where I actually chose to follow them. I don't believe there is anything particularly special about me and what kind of a person I am that entitles me to any more communication from God through the Spirit than anyone else here on this board or elsewhere.

Indy...this is probably the best post I have ever read of yours (and you have many well thought out posts). But this is spot on. Well said. This is exactly how I feel, and sums up my experiences as well.

[kccougar]

"Did our hearts not burn within us?" Forgive a trite response, but certainty doesn't come from history books, it comes from continually seeking the guidance of and confirmation from the Spirit.

I've attended a lot of different faiths, particularly with friends during my HS years, and the difference as far as the Spirit goes was very stark; even for an ignorant teen who wasn't all that into church and didn't have his mom and dad around during those years to keep him on the straight and narrow. I found it very enlightening.

The Gospel isn't the Word of Wisdom. It isn't polygamy, it isn't who is and isn't allowed to have the priesthood. It isn't whether or not you pass the sacrament with your right hand, it isn't tattoos, body piercings, aboriginal haplotypes, source material for temple ceremonial scripts, translation techniques or overly dogmatic parents, EQPs, HPGs, RS presidents, bishops or SPs.

A loss of faith represents a loss of contact with the Spirit to one degree or another for any number of reasons. It's really that simple.

The Gospel isn't true because Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, my parents, church periodicals, history books, missionaries or Steve Young told me so; it's because the Spirit has repeatedly told me so, and I've never found the promptings of the Spirit has led me astray on those occasions where I actually chose to follow them. I don't believe there is anything particularly special about me and what kind of a person I am that entitles me to any more communication from God through the Spirit than anyone else here on this board or elsewhere.

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