Rape in the Old Testament

[RobinFinderson]

The Old Testament has many cases where God commands his chosen people to force the virgin women among conquered enemies to be 'wives' to Israeli men. Personally, I think rape is always wrong.

[Green Lantern]

I'm grateful for the existence of the CUF as a place for Robin to post his controversial views.

[Babs]

yeah, it's always bothered me that the story of David and Bathsheba is taught with the emphasis on the sin of adultery. What of the fact that used his guards and a position of authority to force the woman to "lie down with him." Sounds awfully Roethlisbergesque to me.

[Indy Coug]

The Old Testament has many cases where God commands his chosen people to force the virgin women among conquered enemies to be 'wives' to Israeli men. Personally, I think rape is always wrong.

Given my general disinterest with the OT, I don't know what you're talking about. Can you cite a couple of instances?

[RobinFinderson]

Given my general disinterest with the OT, I don't know what you're talking about. Can you cite a couple of instances?

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

Numbers 31:7-18

Zechariah 14:1-2

[Indy Coug]

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

Numbers 31:7-18

Zechariah 14:1-2

Deuteronomy - it doesn't say what to do with the women

Numbers - it does say to kill some of the women, but doesn't explicitly say what to do with the remaining women and children

Zechariah - it sounds like it's Israeli women that will be ravished because of Israel's iniquities, so that doesn't apply in any shape or form

There's a lot of blank filling going on here.

[RobinFinderson]

Deuteronomy - it doesn't say what to do with the women

It calls the women 'spoils,' and then says that people may 'eat' the spoils. If you click on the link to 'eat' it is defined as 'to consume; enjoy.' So the men are commanded to enjoy the women that were captured in war.

Numbers - it does say to kill some of the women, but doesn't explicitly say what to do with the remaining women and children

I guess you are right. God first says that they should determine if a woman is a virgin. I wonder how they do that? Then they kill the non-virgins, and they keep the virgins for themselves... for the heck of it.

Zechariah - it sounds like it's Israeli women that will be ravished because of Israel's iniquities, so that doesn't apply in any shape or form

You are right here. The weird bit is that the Lord says that He will gather the nations against the people, suggesting that he will facilitate the ravishment of the Israeli women.

There's a lot of blank filling going on here.

Not really, and these are not the only examples.

[RobinFinderson]

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

Things get a bit more explicit in the next chapter, including instructions for what to do if the woman (spoil of war) isn't as sexually satisfying as you had first hoped.

Spoiler for What to do if a sex slave isn't as sexually awesome as one had hoped.:

You have to let her go, and not sell her for money, because you have 'humbled her.'

[RobinFinderson]

With codified rape in the OT, how does one look to that tome for moral guidance, without simply picking and choosing to believe whatever seems to go along with what would have been your natural inclination?

[Non Sequitur]

Most intelligent people acknowledge that scripture is not the word of God from God's own mouth. It's the word of God as explained by Godly men. It's silly to try and apply today's standards to those from different eras. If you were back in Old testament days and were offered the spoils of war, don't kid yourself and think you would turn them down. Morality is not universal. If you commit rape in an era when rape is generally condoned, that doesn't make you an immoral person. Morality is nothing if not relative.

[RobinFinderson]

Most intelligent people acknowledge that scripture is not the word of God from God's own mouth. It's the word of God as explained by Godly men. It's silly to try and apply today's standards to those from different eras. If you were back in Old testament days and were offered the spoils of war, don't kid yourself and think you would turn them down. Morality is not universal. If you commit rape in an era when rape is generally condoned, that doesn't make you an immoral person. Morality is nothing if not relative.

I think this is a more reasonable response than Indy's, where he suggests that enjoying virgin captive women might have nothing to do with sex.

[Indy Coug]

I think this is a more reasonable response than Indy's, where he suggests that enjoying virgin captive women might have nothing to do with sex.

I'm not as prone to fill in blanks without much of anything to back it up.

[RobinFinderson]

I'm not as prone to fill in blanks without much of anything to back it up.

Your response is not an unreasonable one. I think the first reasonable place to start, when presented with any conclusion, is to ask whether or not the evidence actually supports the conclusion that is made. So again, your response is not unreasonable. But I'm pretty sure that if we were to have some of our resident experts give us a bit more history about what the OT is talking about in each of these situations, we would learn that it is talking about something we would call 'rape,' by our current standards.

[CardiacCoug]

Not all scriptures are created equal.

When people talk about the importance of reading/studying the scriptures, I sometimes cynically think about all the worthless and harmful stuff in there, too, as you have correctly pointed out, RF.

To get any benefit and avoid harm, you have to read and study the scriptures and then process what you have read in a correct and useful way.

[RobinFinderson]

Boooo! This is a lame thread, and I admit it. I figure I should only start an occasional Forum thread that might have the slightest whiff of stink on it, and I blow this round on this crap?? Booooo! Booooooo Robin!