Michael Lloyd Jr.'s departure is occasion for people who love BYU to reflect.

[SeattleUte]

Obviously, BYU is not the easiest place to fit in for a non-LDS, African-American student-athlete. Some have done it, others haven't.
Loyd seemed to be doing OK in that regard the first half of his BYU career.
But insiders say Loyd was finding it harder and harder to fit in his third year than it was his first or second, for reasons probably only he can address.

The above quote comes form Jay Drew's blog in the Tribune yesterday. Referring specifically to the bolded part, all you who love BYU, do you agree with the statement? (Note: It's not clear whether it's Drew's own observation or comes from his "insider" sources.)

We are probably so used to seeing this observation that it's easy to dismiss. (I made a similar statement, partially joking, before Drew's blog entry on Lloyd.) Dismissal is not the appropriate response. IS IT TRUE? And if so, why is it true? If not, Drew (or whoever said that to him) should be smacked down and called on it.

On the surface, if Drew (or his insider source) is correct, the reason why may appear easy to articulate, even dismiss: "Because it's Provo; because Provo is mostly white." But so are a lot of other places, including Pullman and even Seattle. I bet Manhattan, Kansas is mostly white. So is Albuquerque. You never hear what Drew said about Seattle or Pullman or Manhattan or Albuquerque or Boise or Moscow or Laramie, or any number of other places in the rockies or middle America that are mostly white. This generally only comes up about BYU and less frequently Utah. (I'm recalling PortlandUte's post (which I found tasteless, and wrong), saying that Brian Johnson would put Utah's AA recruits at ease; I smacked him down. Also, BYU has had the whitest team in the nation since about 1968.

If Jay Drew (or his insider) is right there is something seriously wrong with BYU and all who love BYU need to be worried about it. BYU needs to be fixed if it is indeed hard for AA kids to be happy there.

[Indy Coug]

Wrong forum

[byu71]

The above quote comes form Jay Drew's blog in the Tribune yesterday. Referring specifically to the bolded part, all you who love BYU, do you agree with the statement? (Note: It's not clear whether it's Drew's own observation or comes from his "insider" sources.)

We are probably so used to seeing this observation that it's easy to dismiss. (I made a similar statement, partially joking, before Drew's blog entry on Lloyd.) Dismissal is not the appropriate response. IS IT TRUE? And if so, why is it true? If not, Drew (or whoever said that to him) should be smacked down and called on it.

On the surface, if Drew (or his insider source) is correct, the reason why may appear easy to articulate, even dismiss: "Because it's Provo; because Provo is mostly white." But so are a lot of other places, including Pullman and even Seattle. I bet Manhattan, Kansas is mostly white. So is Albuquerque. You never hear what Drew said about Seattle or Pullman or Manhattan or Albuquerque or Boise or Moscow or Laramie, or any number of other places in the rockies or middle America that are mostly white. This generally only comes up about BYU and less frequently Utah. (I'm recalling PortlandUte's post (which I found tasteless, and wrong), saying that Brian Johnson would put Utah's AA recruits at ease; I smacked him down. Also, BYU has had the whitest team in the nation since about 1968.

If Jay Drew (or his insider) is right there is something seriously wrong with BYU and all who love BYU need to be worried about it. BYU needs to be fixed if it is indeed hard for AA kids to be happy there.

It isn't a racist thing and it isn't a mormon thing. Before there was Michael Lloyd, there was Harvy Unga. He is neither AA or non-LDS. Let's not make this a bigger deal than it is. It is the church school that represents the far right thinking in the church. That far right thinking is not racist, but it is conformist to right wing thinking in mormondom.

[SeattleUte]

Wrong forum

Is it? To me, that just raises a question.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_V3B2ABayOZ...+Scumbag!!.png

[SeattleUte]

It isn't a racist thing and it isn't a mormon thing. Before there was Michael Lloyd, there was Harvy Unga. He is neither AA or non-LDS. Let's not make this a bigger deal than it is. It is the church school that represents the far right thinking in the church. That far right thinking is not racist, but it is conformist to right wing thinking in mormondom.

I'm thinking maybe not a big enough deal is made about it, actually. I'm thinking people are too easy concluding that's just a fact of life in Provo.

[byu71]

I'm thinking maybe not a big enough deal is made about it, actually. I'm thinking people are too easy concluding that's just a fact of life in Provo.

If your trolling me, good job. If not, why are you so concerned about Provo and mormons? Are you our guardian angel?

[Moliere]

The above quote comes form Jay Drew's blog in the Tribune yesterday. Referring specifically to the bolded part, all you who love BYU, do you agree with the statement? (Note: It's not clear whether it's Drew's own observation or comes from his "insider" sources.)

We are probably so used to seeing this observation that it's easy to dismiss. (I made a similar statement, partially joking, before Drew's blog entry on Lloyd.) Dismissal is not the appropriate response. IS IT TRUE? And if so, why is it true? If not, Drew (or whoever said that to him) should be smacked down and called on it.

On the surface, if Drew (or his insider source) is correct, the reason why may appear easy to articulate, even dismiss: "Because it's Provo; because Provo is mostly white." But so are a lot of other places, including Pullman and even Seattle. I bet Manhattan, Kansas is mostly white. So is Albuquerque. You never hear what Drew said about Seattle or Pullman or Manhattan or Albuquerque or Boise or Moscow or Laramie, or any number of other places in the rockies or middle America that are mostly white. This generally only comes up about BYU and less frequently Utah. (I'm recalling PortlandUte's post (which I found tasteless, and wrong), saying that Brian Johnson would put Utah's AA recruits at ease; I smacked him down. Also, BYU has had the whitest team in the nation since about 1968.

If Jay Drew (or his insider) is right there is something seriously wrong with BYU and all who love BYU need to be worried about it. BYU needs to be fixed if it is indeed hard for AA kids to be happy there.

Other places are mostly white, but they don't have the same culture as Provo. When you bring a kid into BYU that hasn't been exposed to the Mormon culture it is tough for them regardless of their color of skin. Add in someone who stands out from teh crowd (an AA) and the difficulty is magnified.

Most people in an organization will tend to form groups within the same culture and this often means they have the same color of skin. In my previous job, the Indians and Paskistanis went to lunch together. The AA went to lunch together. The whites went to lunch together. The Chinese went to lunch together. People are just more comfortable being within a group that understands them.

It's not just skin color, it's also cultural.

[Indy Coug]

I was the only LDS student at a boarding school that was run by evangelicals. I had a helluva time fitting in there too. I'm not black.

[UtahDan]

I'm thinking maybe not a big enough deal is made about it, actually. I'm thinking people are too easy concluding that's just a fact of life in Provo.

I personally think it is a sex thing. It is hard enough for an LDS kid to not have sex (looking at you Harvey) but what about a non-LDS kid who is a basketball star (at least on campus). He has to be thinking that anywhere else he can party some on the weekends. And he can't even go up to SLC to have a good time without people knowing who he is. For someone who isn't LDS, I think that would be stifling. He talks to his friends from home and they tell him what they did over the weekend. And he tells them how he went down to the creamery for some frozen yogurt then later went for a night hike up to the Y.

[jay santos]

The above quote comes form Jay Drew's blog in the Tribune yesterday. Referring specifically to the bolded part, all you who love BYU, do you agree with the statement? (Note: It's not clear whether it's Drew's own observation or comes from his "insider" sources.)

We are probably so used to seeing this observation that it's easy to dismiss. (I made a similar statement, partially joking, before Drew's blog entry on Lloyd.) Dismissal is not the appropriate response. IS IT TRUE? And if so, why is it true? If not, Drew (or whoever said that to him) should be smacked down and called on it.

On the surface, if Drew (or his insider source) is correct, the reason why may appear easy to articulate, even dismiss: "Because it's Provo; because Provo is mostly white." But so are a lot of other places, including Pullman and even Seattle. I bet Manhattan, Kansas is mostly white. So is Albuquerque. You never hear what Drew said about Seattle or Pullman or Manhattan or Albuquerque or Boise or Moscow or Laramie, or any number of other places in the rockies or middle America that are mostly white. This generally only comes up about BYU and less frequently Utah. (I'm recalling PortlandUte's post (which I found tasteless, and wrong), saying that Brian Johnson would put Utah's AA recruits at ease; I smacked him down. Also, BYU has had the whitest team in the nation since about 1968.

If Jay Drew (or his insider) is right there is something seriously wrong with BYU and all who love BYU need to be worried about it. BYU needs to be fixed if it is indeed hard for AA kids to be happy there.

Agree with the bolded part. It's pretty easy to go down the list of non-LDS black athletes over the last 20 years and see how many came vs how many finished. Rural Korea is not the easiest place to live for a tall white American who doesn't like kimche. I don't see anything inherently damning to BYU or the church over this. Non LDS living in Provo is a minority. Black person living in Provo is a minority. Together it's a double whammy.

I do think there is something damning to BYU inside this, though. BYU wants to have its cake and eat it too. If BYU looks at historical data and sees that it kicks out 30% (not the real number just a hypo) of all non-LDS black athletes and sees how disrupting that is to those young men in their educational and career pursuits, it really needs to step up and say we need to do what it takes to get that number down to an acceptable number or completely stop pursuing non-LDS black athletes or better stated non-LDS athletes in general. Either you stop kicking them out or you stop bringing them in.

[byu71]

I was the only LDS student at a boarding school that was run by evangelicals. I had a helluva time fitting in there too. I'm not black.

You lucky guy. I like the evangelicals. Why couldn't you fit in. Isn't Pat Robertson and Huckabee evangelical. I think Bob Jones University is evangelical. I would have thought you would have fit in just fine.

[Indy Coug]

You lucky guy. I like the evangelicals. Why couldn't you fit in. Isn't Pat Robertson and Huckabee evangelical. I think Bob Jones University is evangelical. I would have thought you would have fit in just fine.

For one, they wouldn't let me join the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

[byu71]

For one, they wouldn't let me join the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

So they looked down on you because you because you weren't of their faith. Those cold hearted bastards.

[Moliere]

For one, they wouldn't let me join the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

I doubt that had anything to do with your Mormonism.

[UtahDan]

For one, they wouldn't let me join the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

There is a lot of shocking material crammed in that little sentence.