Thinking about a point my mission president made

[San Juan Sun]

I had a mission president who was an old school, Navy man kind of a guy. Not a touchy feely guy, just a get-out-and-get-the-work-done kind of dude. He did not have much tolerance for the knuckleheaded antics of 19-21 year old men sometimes.

But he never sent anyone home.

I didn't really understand why for a long time in my mission. We had dudes hooking up all the time with the native females. One guy ran away with one. One guy was a branch president as a missionary and was caught drinking. We had a new missionary who slept with a girl during the overnight stay in Miami, and beat the crap out of a local dude who was messing with his bike a few days later. But none of these guys got sent home (although I do know of a few who chose to go, but had the option to stay).

When one of these situations occurred, he was asked why he didn't send people home. He replied that he thought that the mission field was the better place to repent than their home.

As I think about Harvey Unga (yes, I know he withdrew himself) I really hope that the honor code is administered with the kind of perspective that my mission president had. I've never had to deal with the HC office, and I want to be careful that I'm not accusing them of acting otherwise. I just hope that people at BYU are given the chance to repent, rather than being sent home to do so.

Disclaimer: I am not saying that the HC is too strict, administered unfairly, etc. I just hope it more about the sinner than the sin.

[grapevine]

For the mission field you are sent out there to call sinners to repent not to repent yourself. If the Area Presidency found out I bet they would be sent home in a heart beat. I know of a Mission President that wanted to keep a missionary out there. Beleive it was for belated confessions but Dallin H Oaks was Area President in Phillipines and said he had to go home.

I read a talk or book by Glenn L Pace were some Stake President wanted to send someone out to the Mission Field as it would help the Repentance Process. When asked how long the most recent transgression was. Stake President said Three Weeks. Glenn was more willing to release the Stake President than send him on a mission.

Going through the temple and fornication is good way to lose membership. I think if you shack up you will get sent home. Thing is you are to teach the gospel not reform your life in the Mission Field.

That comes from the raising the bar now too. If you have commited serious transgressions it is harder to even go on a mission. I don't think they do General Authority Interviews anymore for some people. What I was told while you can still repent you may or may not be able to go on a mission.

My Mp was reluctant to send people home but times you have too for serious sins. By not sending serious sinners home I would think that hindered the work and hindered them. Doing transgressions that get you disciplanary action or at least your temple recommend status is effected if they are not sent home I am sure the General Authorities will have something to say to the Mission President.

As for Unga and others you know what the code is when you sign it and you chose to violate it not the HC office. They are just enforcing the rules. As for the sinner why don't we excommunicate sins? Read that in a book by a BYU Professer whose dad was an apostle. Called AGency what it really means.

[Viking]

to hear a mormon talk about "agency" is comical. agency in the mormon church is a one way street: do what we say, act as we do, pay our tax or else

edit: ok, even i can't let this one go...too obvious a troll that I can't even abide it.

[falafel]

to hear a mormon talk about "agency" is comical. agency in the mormon church is a one way street: do what we say, act as we do, pay our tax or else

edit: ok, even i can't let this one go...too obvious a troll that I can't even abide it.

Why would you try and troll us? We're your friends!

[Viking]

i know, i know. i'm not sure about this grapevine guy, though. he sounds like he would have heil'd hitler at a moments notice in 1936

[Fiyero]

During my mission president's first year, he had a lot of cleaning to do and sent about 15 people home. It's not that he was extra strict; believe me those elders committed acts that would have gotten them booted from most missions.

But suddenly he stopped cleaning house, because word returned that all but 2 of those dishonorably released missionaries went inactive and remained inactive. And I don't know if he received heat from their parents and file leaders, or stewed over what "he" had done, but suddenly he started letting a lot of things slide. And I had a problem with that, because the bad elders were poisoning the mission, and the members didn't want to get involved in the work.

Somewhere inbetween there must be a happy medium, but it's a delicate area.

[grapevine]

Thing is if a missionary is in the field unworthy than it hurts the work and him spiritually. That is were raising hte bar comes in.

I heard this story though I cannot trace it. Stephen D Nadauld was in the Area Presidency on my mission. Story goes some office Elder or someone said you must be nadauld. Didn't refer to him as Elder but disrespectfully used only his last name. So to be example asked mp to send him home and he did. Now if that is a true story would be a bit harsh. ONe I have a hard time beleiving.

Heard stories of a mp asking if missionaries got comp study when told yes but missed some without explanation threatened to send them home when the missionary could not get story out. Or for not using flag on bike. Those are extreme and to set example harsh.

Had an AP tell us we will write in our white weeklys every second of every day. Quoted 121 of the D and C after telling us we will do this we will do that. I made it a point of not doing what he said because of his unrigtheous dominion he quoted a scripture he did not live.

Things that hinder work and missionary of course you may have to send them home. Don't send them home for example of when you don't do what you are supposed to do reasons.

[Rosebud]

Thing is if a missionary is in the field unworthy than it hurts the work and him spiritually. That is were raising hte bar comes in.

I heard this story though I cannot trace it. Stephen D Nadauld was in the Area Presidency on my mission. Story goes some office Elder or someone said you must be nadauld. Didn't refer to him as Elder but disrespectfully used only his last name. So to be example asked mp to send him home and he did. Now if that is a true story would be a bit harsh. ONe I have a hard time beleiving.

Heard stories of a mp asking if missionaries got comp study when told yes but missed some without explanation threatened to send them home when the missionary could not get story out. Or for not using flag on bike. Those are extreme and to set example harsh.

Had an AP tell us we will write in our white weeklys every second of every day. Quoted 121 of the D and C after telling us we will do this we will do that. I made it a point of not doing what he said because of his unrigtheous dominion he quoted a scripture he did not live.

Things that hinder work and missionary of course you may have to send them home. Don't send them home for example of when you don't do what you are supposed to do reasons.

Is it just me, or is the missionary program sort of an extension of boy scouts?

[UtahDan]

As I think about Harvey Unga (yes, I know he withdrew himself) I really hope that the honor code is administered with the kind of perspective that my mission president had. I've never had to deal with the HC office, and I want to be careful that I'm not accusing them of acting otherwise. I just hope that people at BYU are given the chance to repent, rather than being sent home to do so.

I hope so too. Gospel=good news, but what is the good news? That all the commandments have been restored so that we can now, more than ever, conform our lives exactly to the will of God? That we have the chance to be perfectly obedient and open the doors or heaven? Of course not, it is that we can overcome sin through the atonement. I haven't read anywhere that the overcoming has to take place in exile.

The argument that "if forgiveness is too easy, then people will sin more" has never resonated with me. Primarily because you can't manipulate behavior by granting or withholding something that is only God's to give. I think shunning sinners (which is clearly something we do at least culturally) does far more harm than good and is pharisaic.