A hopeful experience

[Jeff Lebowski]

As most of you know, I have lamented our church's involvement with prop 8. Last Friday I was at the HS semifinals at RES and I was sitting behind a couple of guys who were talking about the prop 8 controversy. One of these men is a famous LDS figure; one that every one of you would know if I mentioned the name. They were discussing the protests, etc. and they got quite animated and passionate. Comments were being thrown around such as "This makes me so angry. We need to stop being so passive and fight this gay agenda. We need to fight back and show them that we won't take this crap lying down." Once again, I was saddened to see that "fighting the gays" seems to be such a defining issue for many members.

Fast forward to yesterday in Gospel Doctrine class. Our instructor (a good man - a man that I greatly respect) started the discussion by asking for comments about the protests and the prop 8 issue. I groaned inside and braced myself for 45 minutes of talk about persecution, the gay agenda, wheat vs. tares, etc. And for the first few minutes, things went according to script. Then something remarkable happened. A few people started making comments asking people to step back for a moment and to consider some empathy, compassion, and understanding for the other side. We discussed how tough it would be to be a gay person in the church right now. We discussed how we need to be extremely careful how we communicate with fellow members. An older member (who I used to consider kind of a mullah) talked about how his former ward in Memphis was split along racial lines but went through a dramatic transformation when they finally made an effort to get to know one another. He pleaded that we make the same effort with gays. (You could have knocked me over with a feather at that point). Then a former bishop (I have heard this man say harsh things about gay marriage in the past) gave a tearful plea for understanding. He indicated that as a bishop he had counseled numerous people who were struggling with SSA. He said that they were good, humble, and faithful people who loved the Lord and absolutely did not choose to be faced with that struggle.

In the end, the spirit in the room was as powerful as I have ever seen in a SS class. The focus was entirely on love and compassion rather than condemnation. It was a remarkable transformation. I went away with a renewed sense of hope. Maybe we will pull through this and become a better people. I certainly hope so.

[scottie]

... Then something remarkable happened. A few people started making comments asking people to step back for a moment and to consider some empathy, compassion, and understanding for the other side. We discussed how tough it would be to be a gay person in the church right now. We discussed how we need to be extremely careful how we communicate with fellow members. An older member (who I used to consider kind of a mullah) talked about how his former ward in Memphis was split along racial lines but went through a dramatic transformation when they finally made an effort to get to know one another. He pleaded that we make the same effort with gays. (You could have knocked me over with a feather at that point). Then a former bishop (I have heard this man say harsh things about gay marriage in the past) gave a tearful plea for understanding. He indicated that as a bishop he had counseled numerous people who were struggling with SSA. He said that they were good, humble, and faithful people who loved the Lord and absolutely did not choose to be faced with that struggle.

In the end, the spirit in the room was as powerful as I have ever seen in a SS class. The focus was entirely on love and compassion rather than condemnation. It was a remarkable transformation. I went away with a renewed sense of hope. Maybe we will pull through this and become a better people. I certainly hope so.

Think about what a similar message from TSM would accomplish. Unfortunately I don't consider the "please show tolerance to opposing views" one liner to be a similar message.

[UtahDan]

Thanks for that Jeff. I think it is hard for people to bump up against this on a personal level and come away without a nuanced view of it. It never ceases to amaze me what people actually think. I have stopped trying to predict in my class who might say what. In the main, I find that members in general think a lot deeper and know more than one might initially give some of them credit for.

[ERCougar]

Think about what a similar message from TSM would accomplish. Unfortunately I don't consider the "please show tolerance to opposing views" one liner to be a similar message.

I agree. My wife and I disagree on Prop 8, but both of us have close friends and relatives who are gay and we both agree that it would have been really nice for a strong statement of compassion and tolerance from the Church leadership. I liked their statement that they issued, but I would have preferred it be much stronger and issued in advance of the Prop 8 vote. I'm a little torn on the Prop 8 issue, but my biggest disappointment in the Church's involvement is the tacit endorsement of homophobia that too many members viewed it as.

Great post, Jeff. It makes me think more of us need to speak up. The trick is to do this without being an a-hole. It's a concern often ignored by the blowhards but important nonetheless.

[Solon]

That's a good story.

My in-laws were at the DC temple on Saturday when about 20 protesters showed up outside the Visitors Center. The VC Director, my inlaws said, handled the situation very well. Soon after the people assembled it started to rain. The center director went outside and offered them umbrellas. The protesters declined. When it quickly started to rain a lot harder, most of the people went on their way. In all, the demonstration lasted only a few minutes.

[TripletDaddy]

That's a good story.

My in-laws were at the DC temple on Saturday when about 20 protesters showed up outside the Visitors Center. The VC Director, my inlaws said, handled the situation very well. Soon after the people assembled it started to rain. The center director went outside and offered them umbrellas. The protesters declined. When it quickly started to rain a lot harder, most of the people went on their way. In all, the demonstration lasted only a few minutes.

Jeff's post is a great way to start my work day (yes, it is 10:30 here in SoCal and I am barely getting started....suck it!).

Solon's story reminded me a true story here in Newport Beach. The temple sits in a lot adjacent to the stake center, so we would see the temple progress weekly...every Sunday. The temple was going through the final permitting process and there were some protesters hanging out on the corner entrance, waving signs, etc...

We were all at the stake center for Saturday morning building cleanup (ugh....). The Stake President went out to the protestors, brough them a cooler of chilled water bottles and offered them folding chairs. I think the protestors were so shocked by this display of friendliness that they were mostly silent. they looked at each other and shrugged their shoulders and said, "sure, thanks!"

The stake president asked a few of us to take them out some chairs. Being the hardened sack I am, I coyly brought them the normal metal chairs when I could have easily brought them the padded RS chairs. However, when we went out there to hand them the chairs, the protestors declined and informed us that they were leaving.

Just like that, the loving and patient attitude of the Stake President cast out the spirit of contention. I witnessed it firsthand. I think the same could be said for both sides of this debate. How much more effective would some of these demonstrations be if they were done in the spirit of tolerance, patience, acceptance, as opposed to religious vitriol? And as members, we can all do a better job of truly turning the other cheek. It is a tough situation, but a great opportunity for personal growth.

PS my chair story doesnt have a happy ending because when the protesters declined the chair, i got pissed. I didnt carry those things for nothing. It is about 80 yards from the stake center to the corner. As the people walked away, I slammed a chair into the back of the head of one of the protesters. Blood was everywhere, the cops came, I got maced, and the water bottles spilled out into the street. true story......

[Fiyero]

If you account for LDS membership in CA and factor in the registered voter rate and average turnout rate, and assume that 80% of them voted YES (regardless of church inactivity), that means roughly 300,000 of the 6.1 million YES votes came from the church, or less than 5%.

Yet in the aftermath, *some* NO advocates have singled out the church in protest and retaliation. However, I suspect that the percentage of said people is a likewise number of less than 5%. I would hate to see for church members apply that minority view to the gay community as a whole.

[Goatnapper'96]

Jeff's post is a great way to start my work day (yes, it is 10:30 here in SoCal and I am barely getting started....suck it!).

Solon's story reminded me a true story here in Newport Beach. The temple sits in a lot adjacent to the stake center, so we would see the temple progress weekly...every Sunday. The temple was going through the final permitting process and there were some protesters hanging out on the corner entrance, waving signs, etc...

We were all at the stake center for Saturday morning building cleanup (ugh....). The Stake President went out to the protestors, brough them a cooler of chilled water bottles and offered them folding chairs. I think the protestors were so shocked by this display of friendliness that they were mostly silent. they looked at each other and shrugged their shoulders and said, "sure, thanks!"

The stake president asked a few of us to take them out some chairs. Being the hardened sack I am, I coyly brought them the normal metal chairs when I could have easily brought them the padded RS chairs. However, when we went out there to hand them the chairs, the protestors declined and informed us that they were leaving.

Just like that, the loving and patient attitude of the Stake President cast out the spirit of contention. I witnessed it firsthand. I think the same could be said for both sides of this debate. How much more effective would some of these demonstrations be if they were done in the spirit of tolerance, patience, acceptance, as opposed to religious vitriol? And as members, we can all do a better job of truly turning the other cheek. It is a tough situation, but a great opportunity for personal growth.

PS my chair story doesnt have a happy ending because when the protesters declined the chair, i got pissed. I didnt carry those things for nothing. It is about 80 yards from the stake center to the corner. As the people walked away, I slammed a chair into the back of the head of one of the protesters. Blood was everywhere, the cops came, I got maced, and the water bottles spilled out into the street. true story......

I am all for cheekturning, but can we just refer to the Sons of Hagoth as the "Third Cheek?" Then SipiTau and the boys from the Carson Tongan Ward can roll in when some laying on of hands will best bring about God's eternal purposes! I mean after all, a wise internet board guru once commented that he had never met nor seen an educated Polynesian. Those people are clearly designed for the more savage and brutal jobs inherint in the Kingdom.

The way I look at it we all have our roles in the eternal order.

[Solon]

If you account for LDS membership in CA and factor in the registered voter rate and average turnout rate, and assume that 80% of them voted YES (regardless of church inactivity), that means roughly 300,000 of the 6.1 million YES votes came from the church, or less than 5%.

Yet in the aftermath, *some* NO advocates have singled out the church in protest and retaliation. However, I suspect that the percentage of said people is a likewise number of less than 5%. I would hate to see for church members apply that minority view to the gay community as a whole.

This kind of numbers-crunching is not the issue the protesters have; the visibility, organization, and ca$h put forth by LDS far outstripped those of other faiths.