What does 'Turn the other cheek' mean to you?

[RobinFinderson]

One of Christianity's most foundational doctrines, one of the few outlined by Christ himself, is the idea that Christians should 'turn the other cheek.' As presented in the Sermon on the Mount, Christ applies this principle to

Conflict with those who would bring evil upon us: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Conflict with those who would abuse us through legal manipulation: And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

How to handle those who expect too much from us: And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

How to deal with beggars and borrowers: Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

I think it would take an immense amount of courage to live this way. Perhaps somewhat ironically, it is probably Gandhi who most people look to as having epitomized Christ's teachings on this point. It appears to me that most Christians and Mormons alike only pay lip service to the doctrine of 'Turn the other cheek.' At the heart of the doctrine seems to be the idea that our lives and material security are not as important as the exercise of our moral choice. It would take a lot of courage to practice 'Turn the other cheek.' I'm not sure that churches today are actually interpreting this doctrine in any meaningful way.

So, what does the doctrine of 'turn the other cheek' mean to you?

[Indy Coug]

I would start with not holding grudges against the church you voluntarily left some time ago.

[wuapinmon]

One of Christianity's most foundational doctrines, one of the few outlined by Christ himself, is the idea that Christians should 'turn the other cheek.' As presented in the Sermon on the Mount, Christ applies this principle to

Conflict with those who would bring evil upon us: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

So, I'm left to wonder about the cultural implications about what Christ said there. If this is referring to a gloved slap to the face challenging someone's honor (and thus, to a duel), then I can see him meaning, "If someone challenges your honor and slaps you, it's better to get slapped again, than to do something terrible like die or kill someone else, all over a stupid "honor killing."

I don't know what he means here. I can't imagine him saying that you should just let someone else kill you. To me, this has always been about the petty disputations among me, not life or death struggles.

[RobinFinderson]

I don't know what he means here. I can't imagine him saying that you should just let someone else kill you. To me, this has always been about the petty disputations among me, not life or death struggles.

In other words, this advice from the Son of God only matters when it doesn't matter (petty disputations)?

[Indy Coug]

The D&C put limitations on how often you were required to turn your cheek in certain situations.

[RobinFinderson]

The D&C put limitations on how often you were required to turn your cheek in certain situations.

Is that the 7x7x7 quote?

[Indy Coug]

Is that the 7x7x7 quote?

I can't find the reference, but it was either 3 or 4 times.

[RobinFinderson]

I can't find the reference, but it was either 3 or 4 times.

Well, I can find the Biblical reference. Mathew 18:21-22

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

[RobinFinderson]

As a side note, the reason this even came up in my head was from reviewing the Hafen article. It would seem that the church would encourage its members to focus on the 'basics,' which DDD pointed out, is standard against which we will all be judged.

What gets more basic than The Sermon on the Mount? Yet this doctrine of 'turning the other cheek' seems to hardly exist in any way that takes personal courage. According to wuap, it applies to petty disputes. Yet for some reason, I don't think that Christ was saying, "... but when it really matters, kick the crap out of your enemy."

[Indy Coug]

Well, I can find the Biblical reference. Mathew 18:21-22

I don't believe Christ was being literal in Mathew and I believe the D&C reference covered a distinct subset of circumstances and was not meant to do away with the earlier forgiveness limit of 490.

[Goatnapper'96]

One of Christianity's most foundational doctrines, one of the few outlined by Christ himself, is the idea that Christians should 'turn the other cheek.' As presented in the Sermon on the Mount, Christ applies this principle to

Conflict with those who would bring evil upon us: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Conflict with those who would abuse us through legal manipulation: And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

How to handle those who expect too much from us: And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

How to deal with beggars and borrowers: Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

I think it would take an immense amount of courage to live this way. Perhaps somewhat ironically, it is probably Gandhi who most people look to as having epitomized Christ's teachings on this point. It appears to me that most Christians and Mormons alike only pay lip service to the doctrine of 'Turn the other cheek.' At the heart of the doctrine seems to be the idea that our lives and material security are not as important as the exercise of our moral choice. It would take a lot of courage to practice 'Turn the other cheek.' I'm not sure that churches today are actually interpreting this doctrine in any meaningful way.

So, what does the doctrine of 'turn the other cheek' mean to you?

I think that so much of Christ's teaching are attitude based rather than a checklist from which to grade oneself, or grade others if you are Ute fan and the person you are grading is a BYU qb or basketball player.

Honestly, I think turning the other cheek is about an attitude of where you place yourself and your wants and needs in comparison to others. Turning the other cheek is about valuing the health and viability of others. It is about you not putting such a value on your "things" that your love of them will lead you to take actions that could potentially strain your relationship or love towards your fellow man. I think if we strive after that attitude/charity then the checklists will take care of themselves.

I will defer to you in evaluating how well the LDS Church or other churches do in teaching this fundamental Christian principle. My experience in the LDS Church has been that it has been taught on very many occassions. I am often encouraged and counseled to read scriptures which will also include these admonitions and teachings. I am pretty shitty at following it though!

This entire thread takes me back my favorite mission friend and the pride of Carbon County, Elder Kurt Monson. That was a dude that ran out of cheeks right quick and in a hurry! He was indeed a cheekless Lion of the Lord!

[creekster]

I think that so much of Christ's teaching are attitude based rather than a checklist from which to grade oneself,

Who knew you could make so much sense when discussing something that does not involve elective surgery?

My reading of the Sermon on the Mount suggests to me that an attempt to create some sort of objective evaluation of behavior is of very limited value.

[mUUser]

I try to find common sense in teachings.

I believe this teaching is meant to take us a step away from seeking revenge (eye for an eye), and in its place offer forgiveness, meekness, kindness & patience. I don't think it's mean to replace accountability or self-defense.

I can improve in all those areas. I try not to worry about how others are doing -- unless I have a direct stewardship for them (like my wife and kids).

[wuapinmon]

In other words, this advice from the Son of God only matters when it doesn't matter (petty disputations)?

Come on Robin, like TONS of what he said, we need to understand the cultural frame. I don't think he fasted for an actual 24 hours x 40. I think it's a cultural metaphor for "A really long time." "7 x 70" means EVERY TIME. Hence, I don't know what "smite thee" might have meant to him in his culture. Was there a tendency for people to smite each other out of rage that led to people getting killed over honor? I don't know. That's what I think. If I'm wrong, then I'll let him let Satan smite me over and over like some people think's going to happen to me.

[RobinFinderson]

Come on Robin, like TONS of what he said, we need to understand the cultural frame. I don't think he fasted for an actual 24 hours x 40. I think it's a cultural metaphor for "A really long time." "7 x 70" means EVERY TIME. Hence, I don't know what "smite thee" might have meant to him in his culture. Was there a tendency for people to smite each other out of rage that led to people getting killed over honor? I don't know. That's what I think. If I'm wrong, then I'll let him let Satan smite me over and over like some people think's going to happen to me.

In this case you are saying that cultural framing matters when it comes to interpreting the scriptures, but you have no idea about the cultural framing of the Sermon on the Mount, so you will therefore interpret it to mean something that narrows its applicability to your own life to something that seldom happens in modern life, outside of South Central (honor disputes leading to death). Geesh, Hafen was right -- Mormon really DO need to focus on the basics.