Seers

[UtahDan]

Consider Mosiah 8:

13 Now Ammon said unto him: I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift from God. And the things are called interpreters, and no man can look in them except he be commanded, lest he should look for that he ought not and he should perish. And whosoever is commanded to look in them, the same is called seer.
14 And behold, the king of the people who are in the land of Zarahemla is the man that is commanded to do these things, and who has this high gift from God.
15 And the king said that a seer is greater than a prophet.
16 And Ammon said that a seer is a revelator and a prophet also; and a gift which is greater can no man have, except he should possess the power of God, which no man can; yet a man may have great power given him from God.
17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known

We sustain all of the 12 and the first presidency as "prophets, seers and revelators," but has there been a seer in this dispensation apart from Joseph? If Ammon is right, the answer is no as far as I know. Why then sustain them as seers if they are not?

[UtahDan]

I really thought someone might know the answer to this. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps this is an ability that is dormant at this time, though Ammon seems to be defining it as something that is done, rather than something that might be done.

I wonder what the history of using the term "prophet, seer and revelator" is. I wonder when this started to be used, was it with Joseph or at some other time? It certainly seems that you could have a prophet who is not a seer and that would not diminish the importance of that role. I hope no one thinks I am being flip with this, that is not my intention.

[Rosebud]

I don't know the answer but I'm guessing it has something to do with all the keys of the kingdom being restored and never taken from the earth again. I've been expecting that explanation from LA on this one anyway. LA, are you there? It'd like to get a historical explanation, too.

[Indy Coug]

If Ammon is right, the answer is no as far as I know. Why then sustain them as seers if they are not?

What about D&C 138?

[UtahDan]

What about D&C 138?

I had overlooked that. I think the vision there meets Ammon's definition.

[jay santos]

Consider Mosiah 8:


We sustain all of the 12 and the first presidency as "prophets, seers and revelators," but has there been a seer in this dispensation apart from Joseph? If Ammon is right, the answer is no as far as I know. Why then sustain them as seers if they are not?

I think the seer aspect is embarrassing to church leadership and so it is downplayed.

[creekster]

I really thought someone might know the answer to this. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps this is an ability that is dormant at this time, though Ammon seems to be defining it as something that is done, rather than something that might be done.

I wonder what the history of using the term "prophet, seer and revelator" is. I wonder when this started to be used, was it with Joseph or at some other time? It certainly seems that you could have a prophet who is not a seer and that would not diminish the importance of that role. I hope no one thinks I am being flip with this, that is not my intention.

I thinking seeing is an aspect of prophetic endowment from God that is given when it is needed. The reason we sustain the First prez and Q of 12 as seers is to affirm that to the extent anyone is going to be 'seeing' it will be them; no one else has that authority nor will anyone else be authorized. Just MO.

[Indy Coug]

I think the seer aspect is embarrassing to church leadership and so it is downplayed.

I think it's embarrassing how much our "faithful" membership tries to downplay the gifts of the spirit and the prophetic call. It's a twist on Moroni 7 I didn't expect to see.

[Surfah]

I thinking seeing is an aspect of prophetic endowment from God that is given when it is needed. The reason we sustain the First prez and Q of 12 as seers is to affirm that to the extent anyone is going to be 'seeing' it will be them; no one else has that authority nor will anyone else be authorized. Just MO.

I like your opinion.

[jay santos]

I think it's embarrassing how much our "faithful" membership tries to downplay the gifts of the spirit and the prophetic call. It's a twist on Moroni 7 I didn't expect to see.

I don't follow what you're saying. Do you disagree with my comment?

Seers in the OT and Book of Mormon both have a connection to magical/mystical devices with which the seeing is done. Joseph was very open and obvious about this connection. Since then it's been downplayed greatly. I would say that has more to do with the answer to the OP than anything. Disagree?

[Katy Lied]

I thinking seeing is an aspect of prophetic endowment from God that is given when it is needed. The reason we sustain the First prez and Q of 12 as seers is to affirm that to the extent anyone is going to be 'seeing' it will be them; no one else has that authority nor will anyone else be authorized. Just MO.

Interesting. I know of someone who was told that they had the gift of being able to see the future in their patriarchal blessing. I realize that foretelling is just a small subset of the revelatory gifts of being a seer, so I guess you're referring to the entire package of seer gifts when you refer to someone being a seer.

Can the abilities of the seer exist in part, in some people? If you assembled all these people together into a room...

[creekster]

Interesting. I know of someone who was told that they had the gift of being able to see the future in their patriarchal blessing. I realize that foretelling is just a small subset of the revelatory gifts of being a seer, so I guess you're referring to the entire package of seer gifts when you refer to someone being a seer.

Can the abilities of the seer exist in part, in some people? If you assembled all these people together into a room...

The entire package and the complete authority. There is a difference between a seer and a Seer, in my mind. We are all entitled to prophecy for ourselves, but not even the Lafferty brothers can get it for the entire church unless they are called to do so. So it may be for seers and Seers.

[SuperGabers]

The entire package and the complete authority. There is a difference between a seer and a Seer, in my mind. We are all entitled to prophecy for ourselves, but not even the Lafferty brothers can get it for the entire church unless they are called to do so. So it may be for seers and Seers.

Sheesh. I can't believe ALL those people who bought into their deceptions.

[LA Ute]

I thinking seeing is an aspect of prophetic endowment from God that is given when it is needed. The reason we sustain the First prez and Q of 12 as seers is to affirm that to the extent anyone is going to be 'seeing' it will be them; no one else has that authority nor will anyone else be authorized. Just MO.

I like this. I also think it's it's interesting that the temple recommend question asks if we sustain the president of the church as the only person on earth who not only holds all the keys, but is authorized to exercise all of them. Then it goes on to ask if we sustain the other apostles as prophets seers and revelators. Looks like we don't have 15 men acting as seers at one time.

My opinion is that the president probably sees as much of the future as needed. The revelatory "spigot" is (IMO) less open than in earlier times when the church was getting established.

[Portland Ute]

What's the difference between a prophet and a seer, really?

The two terms are so interchangeable.

I've heard explanations, but they never seem to clarify or delineate. They tend to just confirm that they are nearly synonymous.