Prophecy fulfilled at Carthage?

[TripletDaddy]

Question for anyone that may have some insight.

Sometime in 1843 or so, Joseph allegedly had prophesied to Willard Richards that a time would soon come "when he would not receive a hole in his robe, though balls would fly around him like hail and friends would fall dead by his side."

A little more than a year later, Willard Richards leaves Carthage mostly unscathed.

My question: is there any more back story to this prophecy or to the events of June 27, 1844...specifically as they pertain to the undergarments of Joseph, Hyrum, and John Taylor? Yesterday in class someone was sharing something that struck me as crazy talk, but a couple of others corroborated his crazy talk, yet nobody had a cite (huge surprise), so I am wondering if there is any substance.

I checked HC, but HC only references the prophecy in the third person, most likely as later recounted by Willard Richards himself. I couldn't find any record of the prophecy from 1843 when it was first originally given.

Anyone have any inside scoop?

[ERCougar]

Question for anyone that may have some insight.

Sometime in 1843 or so, Joseph allegedly had prophesied to Willard Richards that a time would soon come "when he would not receive a hole in his robe, though balls would fly around him like hail and friends would fall dead by his side."

A little more than a year later, Willard Richards leaves Carthage mostly unscathed.

My question: is there any more back story to this prophecy or to the events of June 27, 1844...specifically as they pertain to the undergarments of Joseph, Hyrum, and John Taylor? Yesterday in class someone was sharing something that struck me as crazy talk, but a couple of others corroborated his crazy talk, yet nobody had a cite (huge surprise), so I am wondering if there is any substance.

I checked HC, but HC only references the prophecy in the third person, most likely as later recounted by Willard Richards himself. I couldn't find any record of the prophecy from 1843 when it was first originally given.

Anyone have any inside scoop?

What is HC?

[TripletDaddy]

History of the Church. A multi volume series, of which I am pretty positive you have heard reference. Often abbreviated as "HC."

[ERCougar]

History of the Church. A multi volume series, of which I am pretty positive you have heard reference. Often abbreviated as "HC."

Um...ok.

Someone's a little pissy today.

[UtahDan]

I have nothing helpful to add, other than this sounds a lot like Matthew writing about Jesus.

[TripletDaddy]

Um...ok.

Someone's a little pissy today.

you totally misread the tone.

[TripletDaddy]

I have nothing helpful to add, other than this sounds a lot like Matthew writing about Jesus.

how so?

[ERCougar]

you totally misread the tone.

LOL...OK.
It was a dumb question, now that I see the answer. Yes, I am familiar with the multi-volume series known as History of the Church and often abbreviated as HC.

I think UD's point is that the account likely shows some selective/fabricated memory a la Matthew pointing out how every aspect of Jesus' life fits some OT prophecy.

[UtahDan]

how so?

Matthew tried very, very hard to show that Jesus fulfilled many, many prophecies. No doubt he did in some cases, in other cases it sounds like Matthew trying too hard to make the case that he is the messiah.

This one just sounds too good to be true to my ears. I could be completely wrong, but has the ring of something someone remembers after the fact through a very emotional, rosy lens. Again, I could be way off. Just saying how it sounds to me.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Question for anyone that may have some insight.

Sometime in 1843 or so, Joseph allegedly had prophesied to Willard Richards that a time would soon come "when he would not receive a hole in his robe, though balls would fly around him like hail and friends would fall dead by his side."

A little more than a year later, Willard Richards leaves Carthage mostly unscathed.

My question: is there any more back story to this prophecy or to the events of June 27, 1844...specifically as they pertain to the undergarments of Joseph, Hyrum, and John Taylor? Yesterday in class someone was sharing something that struck me as crazy talk, but a couple of others corroborated his crazy talk, yet nobody had a cite (huge surprise), so I am wondering if there is any substance.

I checked HC, but HC only references the prophecy in the third person, most likely as later recounted by Willard Richards himself. I couldn't find any record of the prophecy from 1843 when it was first originally given.

Anyone have any inside scoop?

The recollections remind me too much of the stories ofthe transfiguration of BY.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I've had some discussions with my BiL about this (he's really into Joseph Smith history). Rather than try to summarize everything here, I'd refer you to a FAIR article (stop snickering) that is consistent with what I've learned from other sources, and which my BiL says is pretty good. http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smit...moved_garments And even if you don't like it, at least this gives me a chance for one last post of Lee Remick's inspiring visage.

P.S. Note that the article refers to modern Church leaders discounting the notion that Richards' garments prevented bullet entry. LDS police officers and soldiers are well-advised to go with Kevlar, not a cotton/poly blend.

[TripletDaddy]

I've had some discussions with my BiL about this (he's really into Joseph Smith history). Rather than try to summarize everything here, I'd refer you to a FAIR article (stop snickering) that is consistent with what I've learned from other sources, and which my BiL says is pretty good. http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smit...moved_garments And even if you don't like it, at least this gives me a chance for one last post of Lee Remick's inspiring visage.

P.S. Note that the article refers to modern Church leaders discounting the notion that Richards' garments prevented bullet entry. LDS police officers and soldiers are well-advised to go with Kevlar, not a cotton/poly blend.

Thanks PAC. This is perfect. After reading this, I suppose the comments in class were not so cuckoo for cocoa puffs after all, except to the extent that Willard Richards was saved because he wore his garments.

I guess we can add another S to the list of exceptions for wearing garments...Sports, Sex, Swimming, and Surrendering.

Also, let us not forget one of the most important, yet often overlooked lessons from the events of June 27, 1844

W. W. Phelps said Joseph told him one day about that time, that he had laid aside his garment on account of the hot weather.

Praise to the man, indeed!

PS I noticed at the bottom of the page there was a link to a similar info page on the topic of Joseph's "boastful" statement recently linked by Scottie. I read the explanations and now I see where creekster and pelagiu$ plagiarized developed their points of view.

[statman]

LDS police officers and soldiers are well-advised to go with Kevlar, not a cotton/poly blend.

chuckle...

[Moliere]

Note that the article refers to modern Church leaders discounting the notion that Richards' garments prevented bullet entry. LDS police officers and soldiers are well-advised to go with Kevlar, not a cotton/poly blend.

Yet I still hear stories in church about how garments have physically protected someone from burns, bullets and other physical harm. It is nice to find out the potential beginnings of that mormon myth.