A JS Lesson Manual ellipsis

[scottie]

For any of you guys/gals who teach EQ/RS, if you want to spice up your lesson a bit, dig deeper into the sources referenced in the Notes section and share with the class. This is from EQ/RS Joseph Smith lesson manual chapter 44:

"I … hold the keys of the last kingdom, in which is the dispensation of the fullness of all things spoken by the mouths of all the holy Prophets since the world began, under the sealing power of the Melchizedek Priesthood.”8

8. History of the Church, 6:78; spelling modernized; from a letter from Joseph Smith to James Arlington Bennet, Nov. 13, 1843, Nauvoo, Illinois; James Bennet’s last name is incorrectly spelled “Bennett” in History of the Church.

Here's the actual paragraph that the above was parsed from (text here):

Shall I, who have witnessed the visions of eternity, and beheld the glorious mansions of bliss, and the regions and the misery of the damned,--shall I turn to be a Judas? Shall I, who have heard the voice of God, and communed with angels, and spake as moved by the Holy Ghost for the renewal of the everlasting covenant, and for the gathering of Israel in the last days,--shall I worm myself into a political hypocrite? Shall I, who hold the keys of the last kingdom, in which is the dispensation of the fullness of all things spoken by the mouths of all the holy Prophets since the world began, under the sealing power of the Melchizedek Priesthood,--shall I stoop from the sublime authority of Almighty God, to be handled as a monkey's cat-paw, and pettify myself into a clown to act the farce of political demagoguery? No--verily no! The whole earth shall bear me witness that I, like the towering rock in the midst of the ocean, which has withstood the mighty surges of the warring waves for centuries, am impregnable, and am a faithful friend to virtue, and a fearless foe to vice,--no odds whether the former was sold as a pearl in Asia or hid as a gem in America, and the latter dazzles in palaces or glimmers among the tombs.

Is there a difference in tone between what's in the manual and the actual letter?

This is the next paragraph from JS's letter to Bennett:

I combat the errors of ages; I meet the violence of mobs; I cope with illegal proceedings from executive authority; I cut the guardian knot of powers. and I solve mathematical problems of universities, with truth--diamond truth; and God is my "right hand man."

Anyone here know what mathematical problems of universities JS solved? God was his right hand man?

[falafel]

Is there a difference in tone between what's in the manual and the actual letter?

Possibly, but if you're suggesting that the quote is a bit dishonest, I would disagree. I would not have a problem citing to that passage as support for the proposition that JS held the keys of the last dispensation, etc. etc. Its not an ideal quote for that proposition, but it works.

[Commando]

Joseph Smith is awesome.

[scottie]

Possibly, but if you're suggesting that the quote is a bit dishonest, I would disagree. I would not have a problem citing to that passage as support for the proposition that JS held the keys of the last dispensation, etc. etc. Its not an ideal quote for that proposition, but it works.

Not suggesting that at all. I was fascinated by what the LDS Church intentionally omitted in this case by using that ellipsis. Think about how much more interesting that lesson could have been.

Any takers on the mathematical problems of universities that JS claimed to have solved? grapevine?

[falafel]

Not suggesting that at all. I was fascinated by what the LDS Church intentionally omitted in this case by using that ellipsis. Think about how much more interesting that lesson could have been.

Okay. I couldn't quite tell your tone.

[creekster]

Not suggesting that at all. I was fascinated by what the LDS Church intentionally omitted in this case by using that ellipsis. Think about how much more interesting that lesson could have been.

Any takers on the mathematical problems of universities that JS claimed to have solved? grapevine?

More interestign how? By discussing claims you consider grandiose? As is clear by the edited version of the letter included in the manual, the church was interested in promoting discussion and learning of gospel prionciples, not of secular curiosities.

[scottie]

More interestign how? By discussing claims you consider grandiose? As is clear by the edited version of the letter included in the manual, the church was interested in promoting discussion and learning of gospel prionciples, not of secular curiosities.

C'mon, the full paragraph isn't more interesting to you? Nearly every EQ class I've ever been to has needed a fire lit under them; share the quote then discuss what JS might have meant. Very simple.

[creekster]

C'mon, the full paragraph isn't more interesting to you? Nearly every EQ class I've ever been to has needed a fire lit under them; share the quote then discuss what JS might have meant. Very simple.

While your goal is laudable your proposed means is not, IMO. The lesson chapter was about the restoration in the dispensation of the fullness of times. It was not about political demagoguery or Fermat's last theorem. The editor chose the language because it supported the lesson topic precisely, not in order to compensate for an imagined poor instructor by approaching the quorum meeting like people magazine.

[CardiacCoug]

Joseph Smith was kind of like Max Hall.

The Church wants us to think Joseph was more like Mike Reid, the golfer. That's why they whitewash all of the interesting and controversial things out, Soviet-style.

[creekster]

Joseph Smith was kind of like Max Hall.

The Church wants us to think Joseph was more like Mike Reid, the golfer. That's why they whitewash all of the interesting and controversial things out, Soviet-style.

Soviet style? Is Scottie posting from the Gulag?

[CardiacCoug]

Soviet style? Is Scottie posting from the Gulag?

We talk so much about Joseph Smith and the early history of the Church, and yet a huge percentage of the Church is completely unaware that Joseph was married to at least 28 women.

Try bringing that up in Church and there is a pretty reasonable probability you will find yourself in the metaphorical "Gulag."

[I.J. Reilly]

We talk so much about Joseph Smith and the early history of the Church, and yet a huge percentage of the Church is completely unaware that Joseph was married to at least 28 women.

Try bringing that up in Church and there is a pretty reasonable probability you will find yourself in the metaphorical "Gulag."

This is my lesson to the 13-14 year-olds next week. Joseph Smith and the 28. We'll see how all six of 'em take it.

[creekster]

We talk so much about Joseph Smith and the early history of the Church, and yet a huge percentage of the Church is completely unaware that Joseph was married to at least 28 women.

Try bringing that up in Church and there is a pretty reasonable probability you will find yourself in the metaphorical "Gulag."

First, this has nothing to do with Scottie's quoted letter nor the issue at hand, except in a very broad sense. Scottie was implying that JS was exaggerating his mathematical abilities and that the complete paragraph was more interesting than the quoted portion. I felt that the quoted portion was on point to the lesson topic and fit the purpose of that manual. Polygamy has no part of this particular discussion, but thanks for pointing it out.

Second, you should ask someone close to you about Soviet Style censorship. The very fact that you and I can obtain books about JS's polygamy and that Scottie can quote the entire letter from the history of the Church proves this is nothing remotely like Soviet Style censorship. I get that you are being hyperbolic, but that is a rather incendiary comparison with no real value, IMO.

[CardiacCoug]

This is my lesson to the 13-14 year-olds next week. Joseph Smith and the 28. We'll see how all six of 'em take it.

All the lessons in the Church are pretty much written on the level of that age group.

We discuss the inspirational version of Church history that at times very loosely approximates the actual events -- similar to a history class choosing to discuss John Smith as portrayed in the Disney movie Pocahontas rather than studying the actual known history of John Smith.

Maybe that's the type of history that most Church members prefer, but I'm not a big fan.

[CardiacCoug]

Second, you should ask someone close to you about Soviet Style censorship. The very fact that you and I can obtain books about JS's polygamy and that Scottie can quote the entire letter from the history of the Church proves this is nothing remotely like Soviet Style censorship. I get that you are being hyperbolic, but that is a rather incendiary comparison with no real value, IMO.

Sure, the Church doesn't have control over every publishing outlet in the country. In that way the comparison is wrong.

But the publications that the Church controls only publish an "official" sanitized version of events. I would say it's very similar to the Soviet historical method.