sacrament consumption

[LA Ute]

how long did it take for them to get used to eating bread and water?

Derideo, ergo sum.

--DDDescartes.

[myboynoah]

Actually, I am fine with your synopsis, although your second one is technically inaccurate, at least per what I posted. What is your basis for disagreement with those two points?

Who said anything about disagreement?

I find your belief system compelling. I would like to learn more.

[TripletDaddy]

Who said anything about disagreement?

I find your belief system compelling. I would like to learn more.

so you gave your toddlers sacrament, I take it? there is nothing wrong with it. I am sure their little sins were redeemed and their little baptismal covenants were renewed and it was all very cute. I don't blame you for doing so.

[myboynoah]

so you gave your toddlers sacrament, I take it? there is nothing wrong with it. I am sure their little sins were redeemed and their little baptismal covenants were renewed and it was all very cute. I don't blame you for doing so.

I'm getting the feeling that you really don't think there is nothing wrong with it. Is this, like, a global warming thing for you?

[Solon]

So, if this were the case, someone outside the Faith could not be forgiven of a sin, unless he/she partakes of the Sacrament? Or are there different rules for repentance outside the church? Or are we held to a higher standard?

You're conflating forgiveness and reconciliation. Overlapping concepts, to be sure, but not identical. I have no idea how/when/if people are forgiven. Theologically, God takes care of that.

Look at it from within the covenant structure of the Old Testament. God chooses a people, makes covenants with them (to dwell among them as long as they recognize and worship him alone, keep his commandments, etc.), and provides a way for the covenant to be renewed when the people screw up and break their end of it.

Whether or not God has covenants with other peoples is an interesting idea, but really not part of my point. The LDS sacrament-covenant structure, in my opinion, is basically organized along Old Testament lines, with the same basic covenants (although radically different rituals) in place.

The extension of the New Testament gospel to the gentiles during the time of Christ caused similar concerns - how do Jews - the chosen people for so long - integrate outsiders into the covenant structure? Do these people have to become Jews first (some argued for this), or can a new, more inclusive structure be formed? (enter Paul)

In the end, remember that these are just my opinions of what the LDS scriptures teach, so don't take them too seriously (and what I believe or don't believe personally is a different subject altogether). However, I think my point is solidly grounded in LDS scripture, that 'renewing' baptismal covenants is more than just thinking about a special day in your past; there are ritual and ceremonial roots that run quite deep.

I suppose that it's possible that what LDS believe and practice today is no longer rooted in their own scriptures. This wouldn't be a unique occurrence.

[dabrockster]

When I saw this thread title, I was hoping you would ask whether it is okay to snack on the leftover bread pieces. I've never found a definitive answer on that one.

I was hoping that was the question as well.. I have done it and seen people do it and have been scolded for doing it.. Will it help me be forgiven even moreso?? I think we all want answers to this question..

[dabrockster]

I was hoping this was going to be a do you have to use your right hand to take the bread/water, thread.



A member of my teachers Q told me that he felt inspired that eating the leftover bread was alright. We always enjoy it during priesthood hour.

Another lingering question for DaBrockster..

I use my left hand sometimes and it is funny to see the people in the pew with me zone in on it with this look of horror/confusion on their face..

Since then, whenever we sit next to these people I go out of my way to use my left hand and and even hold it from underneath the tray (With my left hand of course).. That always adds even more expressions from their face...

[Non Sequitur]

Another lingering question for DaBrockster..

I use my left hand sometimes and it is funny to see the people in the pew with me zone in on it with this look of horror/confusion on their face..

Since then, whenever we sit next to these people I go out of my way to use my left hand and and even hold it from underneath the tray (With my left hand of course).. That always adds even more expressions from their face...

When we were kids, my mother always made us take the sacrament with the right hand. She never fully explained why, just that it had something to do with the temple.

[cowboy]

To answer some of the questions about the sacrament and forgiveness, the sacrament represents the culmination of the repentance process. The best way to explain this is to first establish our spiritual potential and the effect that sin has on our potential to become like our Father in Heaven.

We believe that we are on earth to prove that we are worthy to be allowed to reach our potential of becoming like our Father in Heaven. In this light, disobedience affects us in more than one way. First, it demonstrates to God that we have not yet mastered ourselves to the extent that he is willing to grant us more power and responsibility. Second, and just as important, it damages us spiritually, and the spiritual scars that sins leave make us unable to reach our potential. Repentance, then, is the process whereby we commit to the Lord that we are ready and willing to change, and allow ourselves to be healed through the atonement. This healing process is often referred to as sanctification.

Once we have taken the necessary steps of repentance that we learn in primary, we recommit ourselves by being baptized, or taking the sacrament if we have already been baptized. Then comes the baptism of fire, or the sanctification that comes from the Holy Ghost. The outpouring of the Spirit during the sacrament service (unless you are trying to keep a toddler quiet) allows for sactification to take place.

The sacrament isn't the only event in which sanctification can occur. Any time there is an outpouring of the Holy Ghost then the Spirit has the same healing effect. This does not, however mean that the sacrament is not still necessary. The sacrament serves to reenter into the baptismal covenant that was broken through disobedience increase the presence of the Holy Ghost in our lives as a result.

Should kids and non-members participate in an ordinance that renews covenenants that they haven't yet made? Probably not, but until we get direction from the First Presidency, it probably isn't a big enough deal to make your kids scream or non-members feel uncomfortable. Should we take it if we haven't repented of everything we did wrong? We all have, but we should try to remember that repentence is a continual process that needs to be repeated oft. If we do this then the sacrament ordinance will be more meaningful and fulfilling.