Anglicans and Catholics

[Solon]

I think this is kind of a big deal

http://www.economist.com/world/inter...=hptextfeature

but I'm still trying to work through the various ramifications about what it might mean in light of past events and how it might impact future developments.

That sentence was vague, I know. Some of the issues I'm wondering about are women & priesthood; homosexuals and church; splinter religion vs. parent religion; the nature of modern Catholicism and revelation through the pope.

Anyone care to provide some analysis and commentary?

[Levin]

I think this is kind of a big deal

http://www.economist.com/world/inter...=hptextfeature

but I'm still trying to work through the various ramifications about what it might mean in light of past events and how it might impact future developments.

That sentence was vague, I know. Some of the issues I'm wondering about are women & priesthood; homosexuals and church; splinter religion vs. parent religion; the nature of modern Catholicism and revelation through the pope.

Anyone care to provide some analysis and commentary?

You forgot the biggest issue: married priesthood.

While there have been married Cathlolic priests in the past that were sanctioned by Rome, this is a wholesale adoption of a married clergy.

If Catholicism does away with a celibate priesthood, watch out. The mothership will rise to heights it has not known since . . . 1517.

[Moliere]

I think this is kind of a big deal

http://www.economist.com/world/inter...=hptextfeature

but I'm still trying to work through the various ramifications about what it might mean in light of past events and how it might impact future developments.

That sentence was vague, I know. Some of the issues I'm wondering about are women & priesthood; homosexuals and church; splinter religion vs. parent religion; the nature of modern Catholicism and revelation through the pope.

Anyone care to provide some analysis and commentary?

It's huge. I'm no expert but I do know people of both faiths. This isn't just sheep poaching, it's an attempt at sheep herd taking. Anglicans have taken such a liberal view on certain issues and by so doing have disenfranchised many members of their congregations. This provides a way for entire congregations to move back to Catholicism.

The biggest issue will be married clergy. They seem to be creating sort of a separate congregation for the converts so they can keep some of the less liberal policies but still answer to Rome.

I think the real question is when some of these congregations convert back to Catholicism, will we see many Catholics begin to attend these congregations? I mean, if you are a celibate bishop but can still be a Catholic and be married in one of these new congregations why wouldn't you try to move over there?

[Solon]

It's huge. I'm no expert but I do know people of both faiths. This isn't just sheep poaching, it's an attempt at sheep herd taking. Anglicans have taken such a liberal view on certain issues and by so doing have disenfranchised many members of their congregations. This provides a way for entire congregations to move back to Catholicism.

The biggest issue will be married clergy. They seem to be creating sort of a separate congregation for the converts so they can keep some of the less liberal policies but still answer to Rome.

I think the real question is when some of these congregations convert back to Catholicism, will we see many Catholics begin to attend these congregations? I mean, if you are a celibate bishop but can still be a Catholic and be married in one of these new congregations why wouldn't you try to move over there?

Good points Eddie, Levin. I wonder if the Catholic church is more flexible that I thought, or if these Anglican communities will be forced to toe the line. The idea of wholesale "conversion" by entire congregations seems very 17th-century to me.

[by the way, everyone, this is a really good opportunity to show that this forum can be used for more than attacking/defending LDS beliefs.]

[SeattleUte]

[by the way, everyone, this is a really good opportunity to show that this forum can be used for more than attacking/defending LDS beliefs.]

I resent this. I think my focus is consistently larger than this. In fact, I have a stated policy against specifically attacking LDS beliefs.

Now, the point about counter-reformation is critical. The Protestant reformation was to a large extent (less so in England) a reaction against preceived increased secularism, humanism, permissiveness, salaciousnes, materialism, paganism of the Renaissance. We all know that the Rennaisance was a great leap forward, a giant step toward the European Enlightenment, which spawned Newton, A. Smith, Locke, the American Republic, separation of Church and State, etc. So it's ironic that the intent of at least Luther was to reverse the trend, but in setting a precedent for dissention and schism he greatly accelerated the breaking of the Catholic hammerlock.

Now it seems the protestants are seeing the error of their ways and perhaps hope to reunite. Mormons (whom I group with Protestants)--pardon me for mentioning Mormons but this is a BYU site--are themselves far more ecumenical in outlook than when I was a youngster and in the Church.

[Levin]

This is one of those turn around and look at the view moments. Look at where we are as a society, culture, and civilization, to see where we once were, and where we are now.

Henry VIII broke from Rome, an epic moment in Western history. The consequences of the decision lead all the way to you and me today living in this country enjoying the freedoms of the First Amendment first authored by Jefferson in that Virginia statute. The centuries in the West after Henry's decision have been dominated by the politics of religion, the tidal movements of Catholicism and Protestantism.

And then the Enlightenment came, and more to the point, the dominance of liberalism and securalism.

And so we have a reapproachment of a chunk of Henry's Church and the mothership over a few planks in the platform of liberalism and secularism: womens and gay rights. The branch is splitting over these issues, and one part of the branch returns to the trunk, while the other moves farther away.

Will the fate of societies and nations hinge on the tidal ebb and flow between these two forces over the next several centuries? No. We discuss this, but the news cycle has already almost moved on.

Contrast this with the effect of the formation of the Anglican church.

It is all so revealing about where we are as a western society.

[Solon]

[by the way, everyone, this is a really good opportunity to show that this forum can be used for more than attacking/defending LDS beliefs.]

This was my way of being snide to those who avoid the religion forum because they think it's too negative. I meant no disrespect to the genius that is SU.

I resent this. I think my focus is consistently larger than this. In fact, I have a stated policy against specifically attacking LDS beliefs.

Now, the point about counter-reformation is critical. The Protestant reformation was to a large extent (less so in England) a reaction against preceived increased secularism, humanism, permissiveness, salaciousnes, materialism, paganism of the Renaissance. We all know that the Rennaisance was a great leap forward, a giant step toward the European Enlightenment, which spawned Newton, A. Smith, Locke, the American Republic, separation of Church and State, etc. So it's ironic that the intent of at least Luther was to reverse the trend, but in setting a precedent for dissention and schism he greatly accelerated the breaking of the Catholic hammerlock.

Now it seems the protestants are seeing the error of their ways and perhaps hope to reunite. Mormons (whom I group with Protestants)--pardon me for mentioning Mormons but this is a BYU site--are themselves far more ecumenical in outlook than when I was a youngster and in the Church.

It's interesting to me that protestants are returning "home", so to speak, but I'm interested to see if their traditions influence the mother church at all.

[pellegrino]

This is one of those turn around and look at the view moments. Look at where we are as a society, culture, and civilization, to see where we once were, and where we are now.

Henry VIII broke from Rome, an epic moment in Western history. The consequences of the decision lead all the way to you and me today living in this country enjoying the freedoms of the First Amendment first authored by Jefferson in that Virginia statute. The centuries in the West after Henry's decision have been dominated by the politics of religion, the tidal movements of Catholicism and Protestantism.

And then the Enlightenment came, and more to the point, the dominance of liberalism and securalism.

And so we have a reapproachment of a chunk of Henry's Church and the mothership over a few planks in the platform of liberalism and secularism: womens and gay rights. The branch is splitting over these issues, and one part of the branch returns to the trunk, while the other moves farther away.

Will the fate of societies and nations hinge on the tidal ebb and flow between these two forces over the next several centuries? No. We discuss this, but the news cycle has already almost moved on.

Contrast this with the effect of the formation of the Anglican church.

It is all so revealing about where we are as a western society.

While the dialogue is much more about religion/faith versus secularism, we cannot discount the weight (both political and moral) that Protestantism and Catholicism still have in this world.

[SeattleUte]

Will the fate of societies and nations hinge on the tidal ebb and flow between these two forces over the next several centuries? No. We discuss this, but the news cycle has already almost moved on.

Contrast this with the effect of the formation of the Anglican church.

It is all so revealing about where we are as a western society.

This is the salient point, very well stated.

[Katy Lied]

I have a more prosaic question: whats the difference between high church and low church? It is referenced in the article, but I'm not familiar with the term. And it's hard to google.