Oaks is in favor of religious freedom

[All-American]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13552589?source=rss

I can't help but feel we've made our bed on this one, but he's not totally wrong, either.

[Solon]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13552589?source=rss

I can't help but feel we've made our bed on this one, but he's not totally wrong, either.

Wow. Oaks, of course, is really smart and should have his well reasoned opinion. But I think more people are comparing the LDS church to other players in the Civil Rights Movement.

It's interesting how that has become teh political football of choice for legitimacy for both sides.

[SoonerCoug]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13552589?source=rss

I can't help but feel we've made our bed on this one, but he's not totally wrong, either.

As I read the article, it sounds like Elder Oaks is celebrating the Mormon victory in the Prop 8 campaign while also drawing attention to hostility toward Mormons. The comparison between persecution of Mormons and blacks is unfortunate, to put it mildly.

I hope they enjoy this victory, since I don't foresee many future victories for the Church in the war on gays.

It's unfortunate that there has been so much hostility toward Mormons. At the same time, the Church did not need to go down this road. I'm afraid these leaders have reached the point of no return. They have dug the hole too deep. For what are they fighting anyway? Of all the causes to choose, why did they choose this cause? Gays are already getting married in America, and society remains intact. What are they afraid of?

[Jarid in Cedar]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13552589?source=rss

I can't help but feel we've made our bed on this one, but he's not totally wrong, either.

I found this quote interesting:

"The tide of public opinion in favor of religion is receding, and this probably portends public pressures for laws that will impinge on religious freedom."

How does he draw this conclusion?

[All-American]

I found this quote interesting:



How does he draw this conclusion?

Probably no specific data, but just watch TV these days. There was an episode of the Simpsons just a few minutes ago making fun of close-minded religious people. Dr. House laughs at the religiously minded throughout the series. "The Invention of Lying" is about people dumb enough to believe in the Big Man in the sky. Religionists make for a cheap laugh these days, and nobody objects.

[falafel]

I found this quote interesting:



How does he draw this conclusion?

My thought is that he's saying that as people become more and more secular, they will push for more laws that support their secular views, etc. Often, secular and religious positions are in direct conflict to each other. The more secular a society gets, the more likely it is that certain religious "rights" or practices will be pushed to the margins.

[Jarid in Cedar]

My thought is that he's saying that as people become more and more secular, they will push for more laws that support their secular views, etc. Often, secular and religious positions are in direct conflict to each other. The more secular a society gets, the more likely it is that certain religious "rights" or practices will be pushed to the margins.

While I certainly agree with this, I don't see how that leads to religious freedoms being impinged(I read as restricted).

[scottie]

When was the last time a law was passed (or even proposed) in the U.S. that impinged on religious freedom?

Educate me.

[Hallelujah]

Probably no specific data, but just watch TV these days. There was an episode of the Simpsons just a few minutes ago making fun of close-minded religious people. Dr. House laughs at the religiously minded throughout the series. "The Invention of Lying" is about people dumb enough to believe in the Big Man in the sky. Religionists make for a cheap laugh these days, and nobody objects.

I think it was the result of a recent poll.

[Hallelujah]

While I certainly agree with this, I don't see how that leads to religious freedoms being impinged(I read as restricted).

Because the laws can be construed that if you speak out against homos, you are spewing hate speech. Or you don't believe in that slippery slope?

[Hallelujah]

When was the last time a law was passed (or even proposed) in the U.S. that impinged on religious freedom?

Educate me.

Polygamy? Just off the top of my head. How about 10 Commandments? Christmas trees on public property?

[LA Ute]

I think more people are comparing the LDS church to other players in the Civil Rights Movement.

That is THE big issue going forward, I think. Will opposition to same-sex marriage be equated in the public mind with attitudes like opposition to interracial marriage? That's still being hotly debated in the public square. A lot depends on the outcome, IMO.

[thesaint258]

At the same time, the Church did not need to go down this road.

I think it did. The Church believes that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that the issue is a moral one. I think there comes a time when you have to stand up and say, "That's not right," and fight for your belief. If the Church sat back and let California defeat Prop. 8, it would be too late to put up a successful fight because a lot of states would follow California. In our legal system, it's hard to overcome a lot of precedent, and like it or not, there are states that follow California's lead.

How does he draw this conclusion?

I think one practical example is that Catholic Charities of Boston decided to stop adoptions because the state was going to force it to do adoptions for gay couples rather than allow it to follow the Catholic Church's belief that homosexuality is immoral.

[SloanHater]

I thought this was a very interesting quote:

Oaks said he is specifically concerned about a movement toward using hate crimes laws to prosecute or threaten preachers who preach that homosexual acts are sinful.

I wasn't aware of such a movement. I respect Elder Oaks enough to assume that he his isn't making this claim without fact.

[SoonerCoug]

That is THE big issue going forward, I think. Will opposition to same-sex marriage be equated in the public mind with attitudes like opposition to interracial marriage? That's still being hotly debated in the public square. A lot depends on the outcome, IMO.

The outcome is already here. Gays are already getting married in America, and public opinion is rapidly moving in favor of gay rights. The Prop 8 business in California won't last long either.

I think the decision to fight against gay rights will turn out to be one of the worst decisions our Church leaders have ever made.