The queen of heaven and hermeneutics

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  • pelagius
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 5288

    #1

    The queen of heaven and hermeneutics

    A few days ago I was reading Sam Brown's really nice article about WW Phelp's short novel called Paracletes and some other stuff about Mother in Heaven (here). The novel is probably best understood as Phelp's attempt to explain Joseph Smith's theology of dvinization (maybe aptly described as a divine anhtropoloy). One of the things that becomes clear is that WW Phelps was talking about a Female God before Eliza R. Snow. For example, in a hymn he wrote in 1844 we have the following:
    Come to me; here’s the myst’ry that man hath not seen; Here’s our Father in heaven, and Mother, the Queen, Here are worlds that have been, and the worlds yet to be, Here’s eternity,—endless; amen: Come to me.
    This is certainly supportive evidence that talk of a Mother in Heaven originates with Joseph particularly given that Phelps is talking about these things in the context of trying to explain Joseph's theology of divine anthropology (not an orginal claim by me).

    However, this is not really what struck me as most interesting. In a letter to William Smith (late 1844), Phelps provides a proof text for the Queen in a Heaven theology:
    Christ kept his first estate-Lucifer lost his by offering to save men in their sins on the honor of a God, or on his father's honor.-Christ hated sin, and loved righteousness, therefore he was anointed with holy oil in heaven, and crowned in the midst of brothers and sisters, while his mother stood with approving virtue, and smiled upon a Son that kept the faith as the heir of all things! In fact the Jews thought so much of his coronation among Gods and Goddesses; Kings and Queens of heaven, that they broke over all restraints and actually began to worship the "Queen of heaven," according to Jeremiah.
    I assume this is a reference to Jeremiah 7:18 (Asherah worship):
    The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger.
    The interesting thing to me is Phelp's willingness to use Jeremiah as a proof text in favor of this idea when Jeremiah is clearly condemming the practice. I find this remarkable particularly in what it possibly implies for how the early saints read scriptures. Here the scriptures seem to largely serve as reference points to distinctive doctrines. It doesn't really matter the Jeremiah condemns the practice, the scriptures really provide glimpses at the truth or as Brown terms, "fragments of truth." Thus from these "glimpses" or "fragments" a larger theological truth is constructed. The glimpses then provide support.

    This is very different than the way I like to approach scriptural text. I tend to think the author is trying to make a point and do my best to extract it. I view the author as inspired but not necessarily historical accurate or theologically consistent with other scriptures or even his own writings. Naturally, I think my approach is much more sophisticated. Afterall I take the text seriously and try not to abuse it. But sometimes I wonder. All readings are misreadings but sometimes I think the best readings are spectular misreadings. In fact I wonder if revelation can really operate when one is trying to minimize the misreading? I think the best case for all this is the spectular beauty that we find when this approach was used by Joseph Smith.
    Last edited by pelagius; 10-02-2009, 10:22 PM.
  • pellegrino
    miserere me
    • Jan 2009
    • 12100

    #2
    Originally posted by pelagius View Post
    A few days ago I was reading Sam Brown's really nice article about WW Phelp's short novel called Paracletes and some other stuff about Mother in Heaven (here). The novel is probably best understood as Phelp's attempt to explain Joseph Smith's theology of dvinization (maybe aptly described as a divine anhtropoloy). One of the things that becomes clear is that WW Phelps was talking about a Female God before Eliza R. Snow. For example, in a hymn he wrote in 1844 we have the following:


    This is certainly supportive evidence that talk of a Mother in Heaven originates with Joseph particularly given that Phelps is talking about these things in the context of trying to explain Joseph's theology of divine anthropology (not an orginal claim by me).

    However, this is not really what struck me as most interesting. In a letter to William Smith (late 1844), Phelps provides a proof text for the Queen in a Heaven theology:


    I assume this is a reference to Jeremiah 7:18 (Asherah worship):


    The interesting thing to me is Phelp's willingness to use Jeremiah as a proof text in favor of this idea when Jeremiah is clearly condemming the practice. I find this remarkable particularly in what it possibly implies for how the early saints read scriptures. Here the scriptures seem to largely serve as reference points to distinctive doctrines. It doesn't really matter the Jeremiah condemns the practice, the scriptures really provide glimpses at the truth or as Brown terms, "fragments of truth." Thus from these "glimpses" or "fragments" a larger theological truth is constructed. The glimpses then provide support.

    This is very different then the way I like to approach scriptural text. I tend to think the author is trying to make a point and do my best to extract it. I view the author as inspired but not necessarily historical accurate or theologically consistent with other scriptures or even his own writings. Naturally, I think my approach is much more sophisticated. Afterall I take the text seriously and try not to abuse it. But sometimes I wonder. All readings are misreadings but sometimes I think the best readings are spectular misreadings. In fact I wonder if revelation can really operate when one is trying to minimize the misreading? I think the best case for all this is the spectular beauty that we find when this approach was used by Joseph Smith.
    Is it possible that Phelps felt that the translation was in error and that later (misogynist) scribes condemned the practice where Jeremiah actually didn't. I know that's a stretch (especially considering the JST doesn't reverse Jeremiah's condemnation), but is there anything that warrants such an interpretation of Jeremiah?
    Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
    God forgives many things for an act of mercy
    Alessandro Manzoni

    Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

    pelagius

    Comment

    • UtahDan
      *
      • Nov 2008
      • 14496

      #3
      Originally posted by pellegrino View Post
      Is it possible that Phelps felt that the translation was in error and that later (misogynist) scribes condemned the practice where Jeremiah actually didn't. I know that's a stretch (especially considering the JST doesn't reverse Jeremiah's condemnation), but is there anything that warrants such an interpretation of Jeremiah?
      Sounds to me like Phelps was making it up as he went along.

      Comment

      • pelagius
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2008
        • 5288

        #4
        Originally posted by pellegrino View Post
        Is it possible that Phelps felt that the translation was in error and that later (misogynist) scribes condemned the practice where Jeremiah actually didn't. I know that's a stretch (especially considering the JST doesn't reverse Jeremiah's condemnation), but is there anything that warrants such an interpretation of Jeremiah?
        I think Phelps probably did feel that way about it ... No direct evidence of that but I think that is what this kind of hermeneutic implies in terms of making sense of a "Queen in Heaven" as Phelps understood it and Jeremiah's usage.

        In terms of whether it is warranted. The OT is universally negative about Asherah worship and Jeremiah isn't an exception. Although, there is no question Asherah worship was important at times and that she was linked to Jehovah. For example, A storage jar from the 8th century BCE (found in Northen Sinai) decipts a crowned bovine headed figure along with two other bovine headed figures. The inscription mentions a blessing ``by Jehovah of Samaria and his asherah.'' (see the Oxford History of the Biblical World, Page 309). One can argue that this negativity comes through later redaction of the text. It is certainly true that the deuteronomistic reformers profoundly affected the text in relation to this issue. The deuternomist certainly pushed Israel towards monotheism and I think most scholars believe he shows a heavy hand in this regard. I didn't take a look at any of the textual criticism of the passage but Jeremiah I think is usually thought of as being essentially very consistent with Deuteronmistic theology. In fact, I think some scholars have suggested he is the Deuternomist.


        Relatedly, Dan Peterson argues for the use of Asherah imagery in the Book of Mormon in "Nephi and His Asherah."
        Last edited by pelagius; 10-02-2009, 10:06 PM.

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