New Plaza Signs

[All-American]

This hurts man. I'M the apostate who wants to run for President of the Mormons. Not SU. He probably wouldn't even accept the calling.

Should have spoken up about the sign. Not my problem.

[SoonerCoug]

I'd be the first to admit that the deal reeked (and still does) of backroom politicking between elected Mormons and Church Leaders. However, that doesn't negate the rights the Church now has over its property.

Are the new signs really that offensive? Do people take similar offense to 7-11's discrimination of the shirtless and shoeless?

I'm not questioning whether the Church has rights. I simply think they're once again mismanaging the situation and drawing more attention to their weirdness.

If they had ignored the gay men kissing in the first place, none of this would have happened. If they had issued a reasonable response about the gay men, this also wouldn't have happened.

Heck, I got booted from an isolated room in the JS Memorial Building by a security guard for playing Chopin. I was told that I was not allowed to play a piano in the JS Memorial Building unless it was my calling. I realize that it may have been silly for me to play the piano there, but the only people around were a couple of my friends, and there were all these empty rooms. I didn't think it was a big deal. (Plus I'm not exactly a shabby pianist.) I wish he would have just said: "These pianos are not for the general public to play." Instead he said, "You have to have a very special calling from Church leadership to play a piano in this building."

The Church generates animosity and attention by being uptight and feeling a need to compulsively react to everything (including Big Love). They would have been much better off if they had announced that they regret what happened with those gay men on the plaza and also said that gay men kissing is not prohibited on the square. Instead they said that no kissing of any kind (heterosexual or homosexual) is allowed on the plaza, which is simply not true. Now they're saying that they have the right to kick out any person for any reason, which is true, but it's a stupid thing to write. It certainly makes it clear that visitors are not quite as welcome as most Mormon signs suggest.

Eventually they're going to build a fence on either side of the plaza with a little gate and a couple of big burly bouncers standing guard.

[All-American]

I'm not questioning whether the Church has rights. I simply think they're once again mismanaging the situation and drawing more attention to their weirdness.

If they had ignored the gay men kissing in the first place, none of this would have happened. If they had issued a reasonable response about the gay men, this also wouldn't have happened.

Heck, I got booted from an isolated room in the JS Memorial Building by a security guard for playing Chopin. I was told that I was not allowed to play a piano in the JS Memorial Building unless it was my calling. I realize that it may have been silly for me to play the piano there, but the only people around were a couple of my friends, and there were all these empty rooms. I didn't think it was a big deal. (Plus I'm not exactly a shabby pianist.) I wish he would have just said: "These pianos are not for the general public to play." Instead he said, "You have to have a very special calling from Church leadership to play a piano in this building."

The Church generates animosity and attention by being uptight and feeling a need to compulsively react to everything (including Big Love). They would have been much better off if they had announced that they regret what happened with those gay men on the plaza and also said that gay men kissing is not prohibited on the square. Instead they said that no kissing of any kind (heterosexual or homosexual) is allowed on the plaza, which is simply not true. Now they're saying that they have the right to kick out any person for any reason, which is true, but it's a stupid thing to write. It certainly makes it clear that visitors are not quite as welcome as most Mormon signs suggest.

Eventually they're going to build a fence on either side of the plaza with a little gate and a couple of big burly bouncers standing guard.

So what do you propose be done?

[SoonerCoug]

So what do you propose be done?

At this point: build fences, but be nice to gays. Right now it's a natural pedestrian crossing point and looks deceptively inviting. It's like a trap to lure all kinds of romantic couples when only straight romantic couples are allowed.

[SloanHater]

I agree that the Church PR Department hasn't been earning its share of tithing.

It seems the language is simply a disclaimer that helps the Church in the event of a lawsuit and helps the city prosecutor in the event of charges being pressed.

'Denying access to any person for any reason' is a reflection of the litigious nature of our society and not a specific Church agenda.

[Solon]

Through a series of freak revelations, SoonerCoug has just been sustained as President of the LDS Church, with the condition that Solon and SU serve as his first and second counselors, respectively.

My agenda:
1. Support SoonerCoug unconditionally.
2. Get that Ensign Swimsuit Issue published.
3. Reveal the unrevealed parts of Facsimile #2.
4. Return WoW to 1830 standards.
5. Tithing down to 7% if neither you nor your children attend the byu.
6. Buffet-style sacrament (donut holes and chocolate milk).
7. Business-casual dress code.
8. Pyrotechnics and Michael Buffer to announce General Conference program and speakers.


I don't really care about the signs one way or the other. I just agree with Sooner (see agenda #1) that it's a dumb PR move stacked on a couple of other dumb PR moves. And I realize "righteousness" is rarely in the "good PR" camp, but there's a better way to draw that line in the sand, IMO.

[il Padrino Ute]

I'd be the first to admit that the deal reeked (and still does) of backroom politicking between elected Mormons and Church Leaders. However, that doesn't negate the rights the Church now has over its property.

Well, you'd be wrong about the Mormon politicians. Dee Dee Corradini was the mayor of SLC who made the decision to sell the land to the church and Rocky Anderson was mayor when it was settled when the land swap finalized the deal.

[SloanHater]

Well, you'd be wrong about the Mormon politicians. Dee Dee Corradini was the mayor of SLC who made the decision to sell the land to the church and Rocky Anderson was mayor when it was settled when the land swap finalized the deal.

The City Council negotiated the deal and approved the sale.

[Green Lantern]

My agenda:

2. Get that Ensign Swimsuit Issue published.

Per our discussion that a New Era Swimsuit Issue was too pervy.

I don't really care about the signs one way or the other. I just agree with Sooner (see agenda #1) that it's a dumb PR move stacked on a couple of other dumb PR moves. And I realize "righteousness" is rarely in the "good PR" camp, but there's a better way to draw that line in the sand, IMO.

Very true. The thing is, the PR department has shown some skill recently in some areas. The press release regarding BIG LOVE was actually very effective at defusing some of the standard reactionary Mormon response. It had a deft touch that seems sorely lacking from this latest move.

[Art Vandelay]

Heck, I got booted from an isolated room in the JS Memorial Building by a security guard for playing Chopin. I was told that I was not allowed to play a piano in the JS Memorial Building unless it was my calling. I realize that it may have been silly for me to play the piano there, but the only people around were a couple of my friends, and there were all these empty rooms. I didn't think it was a big deal. (Plus I'm not exactly a shabby pianist.) I wish he would have just said: "These pianos are not for the general public to play." Instead he said, "You have to have a very special calling from Church leadership to play a piano in this building."

Have you had more than your fair share of run ins with church and/or its representatives, or have I have I had just way below the median? I was once asked to leave a dance at BYU for not wearing socks. I had only been back from my mission for a month and didn't know anyone in Provo so meandered over to a back to school dance at the Wilk. In retrospect I should thank the honor code gestapo for saving me from meeting a freshman from Spanish Fork and getting married before Christmas.

[beefytee]

Per our discussion that a New Era Swimsuit Issue was too pervy.


Very true. The thing is, the PR department has shown some skill recently in some areas. The press release regarding BIG LOVE was actually very effective at defusing some of the standard reactionary Mormon response. It had a deft touch that seems sorely lacking from this latest move.

How much does the PR department overlap the legal department? This seems like it came straight from the legal department. Is it assumed the PR department knew about this?

[Green Lantern]

How much does the PR department overlap the legal department? This seems like it came straight from the legal department. Is it assumed the PR department knew about this?

Good point. I have no idea if they work together or not. But it looks like they should!

[Fiyero]

My suggested sign:

WARNING!

Anything deemed offensive including making fun of bald apostles will result in the prophet smiting you with she-bears in the name of the LORD!"

Enter at your own risk

As demonstrated:
http://www.seanet.com/~billr/xbs/play_xbs.htm

[SoonerCoug]

Per our discussion that a New Era Swimsuit Issue was too pervy.


Very true. The thing is, the PR department has shown some skill recently in some areas. The press release regarding BIG LOVE was actually very effective at defusing some of the standard reactionary Mormon response. It had a deft touch that seems sorely lacking from this latest move.

Why not just say nothing about Big Love? I think making a statement draws more attention to it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Why not just say nothing about Big Love? I think making a statement draws more attention to it.

I actually thought it helped to stop the zealots from starting anti-HBO movements.