Podcast Central

[old_gregg]

I thought she didn't find the architectural plans for best buy until the end of the podcast, no? From what I recall, she didn't have them when she first talked about the pay phone problem, but she was able to find them later.

the payphone thing illustrates the entire problem with the story. people do not accurately remember the small details on which this case turns, and the stuff we do know is not probative. i am interested to see what happens with the post conviction motion though.

[Donuthole]

I thought she didn't find the architectural plans for best buy until the end of the podcast, no? From what I recall, she didn't have them when she first talked about the pay phone problem, but she was able to find them later.

So she spent a year researching the case before they started recording the podcast, but she didn't find the building plans until 11 weeks into the podcast? That seems convenient. Building plans are all kept on file with the city/county. Wouldn't that be the first place you'd look to see if there was ever a pay phone? Why wasn't that somewhere they looked when they spent hours and hours looking online for evidence of a pay phone? Even if she didn't come across them until later, that causes me to question the thoroughness of their research. Also, I suppose part of the problem with serial storytelling/journalism is that the writer gets to pick and choose the order in which she shares the information. The listener, therefore, doesn't know if the information is being intentionally withheld or if it really wasn't available previously.

[Northwestcoug]

That said, I felt the podcast was a bit disappointing as a whole. Koenig was quick to dismiss things she found unimportant or unhelpful and quick to embrace things she liked. She spent at least half an episode debunking the Best Buy location by "proving" the absence of any pay phone, only to later admit that the building plans show a pay phone in the Best Buy vestibule. Her conclusion is that "maybe there was a pay phone there." Maybe? Really? And why wasn't that noticed on the plans the first time they viewed them? Confirmation bias?

Notably, Koenig does not then go back and admit that the Best Buy parking lot could not be ruled out as a place where the murder happened and is possibly a strength and not a weakness of Jay's testimony. There were a handful of similar issues throughout the podcast, though I can't remember them off the top of my head.

I thought she didn't find the architectural plans for best buy until the end of the podcast, no? From what I recall, she didn't have them when she first talked about the pay phone problem, but she was able to find them later.

[Commando]

Nerdist.com has a bunch of awesome podcasts. I have kind of forsaken the rest of my podcasts b/c there are too many good ones on Nerdist.

[ERCougar]

I'm only 3 or 4 episodes in so maybe she hits this later, but my biggest question right now is why Adnan never tried to contact Hae after the police called him looking for her. It seems like he and Hae were still in pretty close contact up to that point, at least close enough that he would send a "where are you? The cops are looking for you" message.

My running theory: Adnan hired Jay to do it and then backed out of whatever payment he had promised him.

[Donuthole]

Podcast Central

how about assuming that driving to best buy from the school in 2014 was in any way illustrative of what making the same drive was like in 1999?

Yep, that was another one. So many variables in that equation, but they do it on their first try 15 years later, so it must be possible, right? The whole thing turns on a couple minutes, but during the entire reenactment I kept thinking "they have absolutely no idea how long Hae talked to the concession stand lady, so what good does this even do?"

I thought this mashup critique was kinda funny:
http://vimeo.com/115237701

[old_gregg]

There were a handful of similar issues throughout the podcast, though I can't remember them off the top of my head.

how about assuming that driving to best buy from the school in 2014 was in any way illustrative of what making the same drive was like in 1999? and i love that the obvious, easiest answer that adnan is in fact a sociopath is dismissed by a random law professor who says she herself has never seen a sociopath in the wild, so koenig couldn't have been lucky enough to get one on her first try. that's dumb.

[Donuthole]

Podcast Central

I listened to all 12 episodes of Serial on my drive up and back to Utah.

I'm in Cardiac's camp: Adnan did it, but there's not enough evidence to convict.

While it's difficult to understand why his attorney didn't have the girl in the library testify at either trial, it's unbelievable that his attorney didn't do more to combat the cell phone timeline at trial. As I understand it, that was the key demonstrative used by the prosecution at trial. They put up a blow up of the call log with adjacent blanks and then filled the blanks in with the testimony of Jay. But as discussed, ad nauseum, the cell tower pings don't match up with Jay's testimony until about 6 pm. That is a huge sword with which to lay waste to the prosecution's demonstrative (and entire theory of the case). As a trial attorney, I always make damn sure any demonstrative I use is rock solid, because the other side has every right to use my demonstrative. I can't understand why defense counsel wasn't shredding that demonstrative to bits with the cell tower info.

That said, I felt the podcast was a bit disappointing as a whole. Koenig was quick to dismiss things she found unimportant or unhelpful and quick to embrace things she liked. She spent at least half an episode debunking the Best Buy location by "proving" the absence of any pay phone, only to later admit that the building plans show a pay phone in the Best Buy vestibule. Her conclusion is that "maybe there was a pay phone there." Maybe? Really? And why wasn't that noticed on the plans the first time they viewed them? Confirmation bias?

Notably, Koenig does not then go back and admit that the Best Buy parking lot could not be ruled out as a place where the murder happened and is possibly a strength and not a weakness of Jay's testimony. There were a handful of similar issues throughout the podcast, though I can't remember them off the top of my head.

[UVACoug]

THey never discuss it, but I remember from Jay's first interview (I think) that he mentions the "Silver Spring" call while he is with Adnan in the car.

Are you referring to the police interview they played on the podcast, or something you read on reddit (or somewhere else). That seems like a pretty significant detail and might change my opinion about his innocence. I'll go back and listen if it was in one of the episodes.

[Applejack]

Sure I won't argue with people saying there wasn't enough evidence to convict. But I think he did it. Really you get a call telling you your girlfriend is missing and you still have no idea where you were for hours earlier in the day? You give away your car and phone that day to avoid being tracked, you enlist the help of the biggest gangsta at your school, all coincidentally on the day somebody else kills your ex-girlfriend?

I agree that his lack of memory after the cops called is troubling. But he was admittedly high most of the afternoon. Plus, while I think such a call would crystallize that day in my memory, I'm not sure it would stay there if I hadn't thought about my day for six weeks (or however long it took the cops to suspect him).

His story about giving the car and cell phone to Jay are really weak, I agree. But I doubt he gave him the cell phone so that he couldn't be tracked. He'd only had the cell phone for a few days and I doubt kids back then knew about the pinging capabilities of cell phones. I certainly didn't.

Where are you getting that from? Is it in a transcript or something? I haven't heard it before.

THey never discuss it, but I remember from Jay's first interview (I think) that he mentions the "Silver Spring" call while he is with Adnan in the car.

[falafel]

Sure I won't argue with people saying there wasn't enough evidence to convict. But I think he did it. Really you get a call telling you your girlfriend is missing and you still have no idea where you were for hours earlier in the day? You give away your car and phone that day to avoid being tracked, you enlist the help of the biggest gangsta at your school, all coincidentally on the day somebody else kills your ex-girlfriend?

Yeah he's about as innocent as OJ Simpson. Did you listen to it all or just read a review/summary?

I have serious (not just reasonable) doubts about whether Adnan did it. I don't think it's clear at all that he's guilty. Yeah there's some strange stuff he can't offer explanations for, but Jay's story is much more shady.

[falafel]

Where are you getting that from? Is it in a transcript or something? I haven't heard it before.

I remember Jay saying that. It was the silver spring part that I recall anyway.

[UVACoug]

I'm not sure you can complain that the podcast fails as a piece of journalism. This was infotainment. It's like complaining that 48 Hours Mystery didn't cut to the chase early enough. The whole point is to get you to think about whodunnit over weeks. But yes, the last few episodes were filler - she ran out of new info.

I think everyone will agree that he never should have been convicted. There is a boatload of reasonable doubt to this story.

To me there is only one thing that really cuts against Adnan's story and it wasn't really talked about in the podcast. It's the Neisha call, which was beat to death, but more importantly it seemed to me that Jay talked about the Neisha call ("we called some girl in Silver Spring") during his first interview with detectives, i.e. before the detectives could have obtained a warrant for the cell records and tipped Jay off. Thus, even if we buy the "butt dial" theory, Jay either made up a story about calling a girl in Silver Spring that matched the butt dial (miraculously) or Jay made the call to Neisha in a preemptive move to indict Adnan for a murder he would later commit (amazing foresight). The podcast never focused on the fact that Jay knew about the call, and that always troubled me.

Where are you getting that from? Is it in a transcript or something? I haven't heard it before.

[CardiacCoug]

Oh brother. Everyone agrees that there wasn't evidence to convict him.

Sure I won't argue with people saying there wasn't enough evidence to convict. But I think he did it. Really you get a call telling you your girlfriend is missing and you still have no idea where you were for hours earlier in the day? You give away your car and phone that day to avoid being tracked, you enlist the help of the biggest gangsta at your school, all coincidentally on the day somebody else kills your ex-girlfriend?

Yeah he's about as innocent as OJ Simpson. Did you listen to it all or just read a review/summary?

[falafel]

This is pretty good. I especially like Santa on the phone and the Cristina Gutierrez-like attorney.

Ha! That was perfect.