Great experience tonight...

[The_Tick]

As I have mentioned before my daughter was accepted into a multi-cultural program this summer at BYU. The program is entitled SOAR (Summer of Academic Refinement) and it is basically a week of ACT prep, spiritual growth and team building. The accept at max 300 students each year.

We have spoken once or twice since she started on Monday. We went to the campus tonight and had a parent meeting with the leaders of the group and had a nice dinner with our children.

Here is what I came away with:

1. BYU has some decent diversity. The Dean of Students in a non-white from New Zealand. The Associate Dean of Students is a non-white American of Asian decent.

They spoke of the need for diversity at BYU. They came out and stated that BYU and the Church are "predominatly White institutions" and that was never going to change. Because of that there was a great need for as many diverse backgrounds at BYU as possible.

Of the 12 student counselors that helped run the program, 10 of them are non-white and are graduates of the SOAR program. They spoke glowingly of being different and how it was a benefit and not a curse.

The paid stuff running the program are 90% non-white.

2. BYU is the greatest single financial burden on the LDS church. 70% of the BYU operating budget comes from tithing. (This is how they keep the tuition so low)

3. My daughter loves her counselors and loves the program.

4. I really wish I would have had the college experience. I married 6 months after my mission and didn't get the chance.

After I get back from vacation though I am going to sit down and look at what I need to do to further my education and get into something in life that will make me want to get up every day and go to work, instead of getting up every day and checking the calender just to see how far away the weekend/next vacation is.

[SoCalCoug]

I've got a little bit of a dilemma here.

My wife and I are both white, completely European ancestry. My step-daughter's birth father (who has never been a part of her life) was black (his mother was 1/2 white, so he's 3/4 black, and my step-daughter's 3/8 black).

I worked in multicultural financial aid at BYU, and I recall that at least for financial aid, the percentage of minority heritage needed to be at least 1/4. I'm assuming it's the same for the SOAR program.

Here's the dilemma: my step-daughter has blonde hair and blue eyes, and she has no clue that she's almost half black (my wife says bio dad looked similar to Deron Williams with regard to his skin tone).

We are white, I'm a lawyer, and we live in suburban southern California. Is it an abuse of the system to have her apply for the minority programs like that? Something tells me they aren't oriented toward children from southern Orange County white families.

On the other hand, she is an indifferent student and would probably benefit from a program like you describe. She's only in middle school, but we don't have great hopes that she's going to work enough to get into BYU - any edge she can get would help.

As a blonde, blue-eyed girl from a white family, she'd sort of be a minority in the minority program, don't you think?

[Surfah]

I've got a little bit of a dilemma here.

My wife and I are both white, completely European ancestry. My step-daughter's birth father (who has never been a part of her life) was black (his mother was 1/2 white, so he's 3/4 black, and my step-daughter's 3/8 black).

I worked in multicultural financial aid at BYU, and I recall that at least for financial aid, the percentage of minority heritage needed to be at least 1/4. I'm assuming it's the same for the SOAR program.

Here's the dilemma: my step-daughter has blonde hair and blue eyes, and she has no clue that she's almost half black (my wife says bio dad looked similar to Deron Williams with regard to his skin tone).

We are white, I'm a lawyer, and we live in suburban southern California. Is it an abuse of the system to have her apply for the minority programs like that? Something tells me they aren't oriented toward children from southern Orange County white families.

On the other hand, she is an indifferent student and would probably benefit from a program like you describe. She's only in middle school, but we don't have great hopes that she's going to work enough to get into BYU - any edge she can get would help.

As a blonde, blue-eyed girl from a white family, she'd sort of be a minority in the minority program, don't you think?

My middle name is Hawaiian. My last name is Chinese. My birth certificate from Hawaii lists me as Hawaiian, Chinese, Japanese, Portuguese, and Caucasian. I am the haole one in the family. If you look at my siblings they all very much look Hawaiian. When I was born I had blonde hair and very fair skinned. Since I have gotten darker and my hair is brown, but most people can't place my nationality. Often times I get confused as being Mexican or of some South American country. I have had so many people come up to me assuming this and start speaking to me in Spanish. It's only perpetuated because I am fluent in Spanish and often reply in kind.

That said, who the hell cares? I've applied for every scholarship and loophole under the sun that I can apply for. I have no shame and am whatever I am for convenience. I'll take advantage of anything offered me and I don't feel bad about it all. You almost have to get a foot in these days. On any standardized test that asked my nationality I always listed Pacific Islander because that is what I identify with most though I am hapa.

[pellegrino]

I've got a little bit of a dilemma here.

My wife and I are both white, completely European ancestry. My step-daughter's birth father (who has never been a part of her life) was black (his mother was 1/2 white, so he's 3/4 black, and my step-daughter's 3/8 black).

I worked in multicultural financial aid at BYU, and I recall that at least for financial aid, the percentage of minority heritage needed to be at least 1/4. I'm assuming it's the same for the SOAR program.

Here's the dilemma: my step-daughter has blonde hair and blue eyes, and she has no clue that she's almost half black (my wife says bio dad looked similar to Deron Williams with regard to his skin tone).

We are white, I'm a lawyer, and we live in suburban southern California. Is it an abuse of the system to have her apply for the minority programs like that? Something tells me they aren't oriented toward children from southern Orange County white families.

On the other hand, she is an indifferent student and would probably benefit from a program like you describe. She's only in middle school, but we don't have great hopes that she's going to work enough to get into BYU - any edge she can get would help.

As a blonde, blue-eyed girl from a white family, she'd sort of be a minority in the minority program, don't you think?

I have always disliked the fragmented approach to racial-cultural backgrounds. It's like we're dogs and instead of just referring us as mutts we have to legitimize our ancestry by saying we're 1/8 this and 1/4 that etc. It's further complicated by the old one drop law that made anyone with a black ancestor black, regardless of their complexion (cue Seattle Ute with a MEP comment).

[wuapinmon]

I have always disliked the fragmented approach to racial-cultural backgrounds. It's like we're dogs and instead of just referring us as mutts we have to legitimize our ancestry by saying we're 1/8 this and 1/4 that etc. It's further complicated by the old one drop law that made anyone with a black ancestor black, regardless of their complexion (cue Seattle Ute with a MEP comment).

I consider myself Hispanic. Seriously. But, it's a cultural identification, and really Hispanicity is an ethnographic determination, because there are black, white, etc. Hispanics. Should my children, complete with their Hispanic names, be allowed to apply for these kinds of aid? Well, I think the intent is to give extra help to those who, because of their minority status, may have had certain disadvantages historically. I'm not brazen enough to have my kids apply for these things......but what if we move to Costa Rica and my kids only speak Spanish for the next ten years, and then when we move home, they identify more with Hispanic culture than with the USA? Would they be Hispanic then? Is it up to them to determine their ethnicity, or do we worry about blood quantum? What of the German and Scottish colonies in Argentina? They maintain their language and culture, but they are from Argentina, which in American minds means they are Hispanic? How do we qualify them?

These issues are very complex. If I had the DNA that Surfah does, I'd feel the same way (I imagine). Lacking the biological evidence, I don't know what I do, other than know that Williams is Welsh, McLarty is Scottish, etc.

[pellegrino]

I consider myself Hispanic. Seriously. But, it's a cultural identification, and really Hispanicity is an ethnographic determination, because there are black, white, etc. Hispanics. Should my children, complete with their Hispanic names, be allowed to apply for these kinds of aid? Well, I think the intent is to give extra help to those who, because of their minority status, may have had certain disadvantages historically. I'm not brazen enough to have my kids apply for these things......but what if we move to Costa Rica and my kids only speak Spanish for the next ten years, and then when we move home, they identify more with Hispanic culture than with the USA? Would they be Hispanic then? Is it up to them to determine their ethnicity, or do we worry about blood quantum? What of the German and Scottish colonies in Argentina? They maintain their language and culture, but they are from Argentina, which in American minds means they are Hispanic? How do we qualify them?

These issues are very complex. If I had the DNA that Surfah does, I'd feel the same way (I imagine). Lacking the biological evidence, I don't know what I do, other than know that Williams is Welsh, McLarty is Scottish, etc.

I agree with you on the cultural identification, as racial and physiognomic differences are superficial and to a certain extent created by man, much in the way dogs are bred, humans have separated themselves and perpetuated certain physiognomic characteristics within ethnic groups. My family and I identify ourselves as Italians. Both my wife and I have Italian ancestors (she more than I) but even then if we used the fraction system to determine our ancestry we'd both be more northern European than Mediterranean. A child who is born from a bi-racial couple faces similar issues, is he white, or black, or hispanic, or asian?

It is a complex issue, and one that will not likely go away, but I'd much rather see us move towards allowing for cultural identification rather than skin color separation.

[Drunk Tank]

My wife is Colombian, so my kids are 1/2 hispanic. When the time comes for them to apply for scholorships, I'll have no probelm with them using that to their advantage.

[The_Tick]

But when it comes to the ethnicity section, you are only checking boxes that identify where your blood is from right?

Not what you identify with.

There was a curious case this week. A girl that is whiter than I am was there. Both of her parents are American, born and bread in Utah. She is Japanese. She is 17 years old and her parents have lived in Japan for 18 years working. She speaks Japanese and English. But she is considered Japanese because of where she was born.

SoCal...I will respond to you in a PM.

[wuapinmon]

But when it comes to the ethnicity section, you are only checking boxes that identify where your blood is from right?

Not what you identify with.

There was a curious case this week. A girl that is whiter than I am was there. Both of her parents are American, born and bread in Utah. She is Japanese. She is 17 years old and her parents have lived in Japan for 18 years working. She speaks Japanese and English. But she is considered Japanese because of where she was born.

SoCal...I will respond to you in a PM.

Ethnicity and race are two different things. Race is biological; ethnicity is cultural.

[pellegrino]

Ethnicity and race are two different things. Race is biological; ethnicity is cultural.

I'm curious as to your opinion on Dr. Wallace's refutation of that idea.

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-background-01-13.htm

[Fiyero]

My grandmother was adopted and she never revealed who her birth parents were, before passing. So a quarter of my ethnicity is unknown. I could be any of the races that have been mentioned, and moreover if any of your great-grandfathers had a fling, we could be brothers.

[The_Tick]

Ethnicity and race are two different things. Race is biological; ethnicity is cultural.

I am confused as to what you are saying.

I don't think it is possible for you to be anything other than caucasian if your parents are caucasian.

Regardless of where you served your mission, or what you do for a living. A leopard can't become a cheetah just because where it lives or who it hangs out with. Still a leapard...see the spots.