A question for CUF lawyers - specifically BYU & UofU grads...

[statman]

My nephew got his LSAT scores back a week or so ago. Here's his academic credentials for getting into law school - BYU English grad GPA 3.8. LSAT (don't remember the absolute score, but it's 84th %ile). He's worked for a small local lawfirm (BYU grad and moderate donor - and knows several people on JRC Law admissions committee) for the past 2 years and has a glowing recommendation from him. His dad is a BYU law grad, supposedly fairly well known in SoCal (he does general law + estate planning, and has several big-named pro athletes as clients), and over the past 20 years is a high six-figure (possibly low 7-figure?) donor to BYU & JRC Law School.

What would you guess are his odds of admission to BYU and/or UofU Law Schools? Should he retake the LSAT? From what I understand, with rolling admissions, if they didn't let him in with the 84%ile score, they could let him in later if a higher LSAT score comes in.

My assumption - he's got borderline credentials based on academics alone, but with the great letter of recommendation and his dad's donor status, I think he's a shoe-in. I still told him to retake the LSAT - it can't hurt. If he doesn't get admitted soon after his application is sent in, a higher score will defintiely help. The LSAT folks only report your high score, so it can't hurt to take it again. The worst thing that can happen is he has to pay for the LSAT and then not take it.

Your opinions would be appreciated...

(I REALLY want him to get into BYU (or Utah) because if he does, his wife (my niece) will continue to be our 'nanny' two days a week. If he doesn't get in and goes back to a lesser California state school, my wife and I will be shopping for a really good, really dependable babysitter - and the thought of that makes my stomach churn...)

[I.J. Reilly]

By purely the numbers, he appears to be a splitter at BYU, which is to say someone who is around the 75th percentile in either LSAT or GPA and the 25th percentile in the other. His GPA is around BYU's 75th percentile with his LSAT being around the 25th (if he got 84th percentile he scored around a 160, maybe as high as a 161, as low as 159). Based on only numbers, he would end up either being a late admission or a wait-listed person who had a chance to come off depending on how the admissions committee felt they needed to round out their class (if they needed higher GPA, and were ok with LSAT numbers he would be in, but not if the situation were reversed).

With that being said, I imagine that his father's donor status would hold large sway and would push your nephew in. I don't actually have any insight into how they consider these things but I'm working under the general assumption that academic institutions try to keep their donors happy.

He should be a shew in for Utah, with a median LSAT and 75th percentile GPA.

[Donuthole]

Based solely on his academic credentials, his chances of getting in to BYU are not good, assuming he's white. BYU (and most law schools) seems to weigh the LSAT more than the GPA, primarily because it's more of a direct measure. Way too many variables go into GPAs at various institutions, and make if much more difficult to compare GPAs. It does help that he went to BYU, though, as BYU seems to give a bit more credence to its own graduates' GPAs. Another thing to keep in mind is that it is not his BYU GPA that matters, but his Master LSAC GPA, which factors in every class you retaken, withdrawn from, etc, and calculates an adjusted GPA.

I cannot speak to how his father's donations will affect his admission, however, and that may end up being a huge factor in his favor.

[cougjunkie]

According to google 84th percentile is a 161 that seems pretty good.

[Pheidippides]

Based solely on his academic credentials, his chances of getting in to BYU are not good, assuming he's white. BYU (and most law schools) seems to weigh the LSAT more than the GPA, primarily because it's more of a direct measure. Way too many variables go into GPAs at various institutions, and make if much more difficult to compare GPAs. It does help that he went to BYU, though, as BYU seems to give a bit more credence to its own graduates' GPAs. Another thing to keep in mind is that it is not his BYU GPA that matters, but his Master LSAC GPA, which factors in every class you retaken, withdrawn from, etc, and calculates an adjusted GPA.

I cannot speak to how his father's donations will affect his admission, however, and that may end up being a huge factor in his favor.

I will go further, as I know somebody who used to be on the admissions board and talked with him/her about this extensively.

LSAT is at least 2/3rds, GPA 1/3, especially at the margins. The reason why is that it's easy to find somebody with a great GPA but harder to find somebody with a great LSAT.

Also, the closer he is to the Married White Mormon Returned Missionary with Two Kids demographic, the less likely he is to get in - that's because there are a billion of those types who apply.

[Babs]

The LSAT folks only report your high score, so it can't hurt to take it again. The worst thing that can happen is he has to pay for the LSAT and then not take it.

Not true. LSAT will report all your scores from the previous five years. Most schools are going to be most concerned with your high score, but they're not going to be unaware of the others. BYU averages scores.

And it sounds like his score is about a 160, which is okay, but underwhelming.

LSAT is about 5/6ths, unless you're a minority. This is because it's critical that they keep their USNews rankings as high as possible, and the rankings weigh median LSAT heavily in their methodology.

[Babs]

Here's last year's BYU stats. Obviously, the data reported are from a limited sample size.

http://byu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0809/

[statman]

Here's last year's BYU stats. Obviously, the data reported are from a limited sample size.

http://byu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0809/

This is perfect. Based on this graph - he's right on the bubble. I'm assuming he'd get in - but I'll tell him to sign up for the LSAT again and retake it...

[Donuthole]

This is perfect. Based on this graph - he's right on the bubble. I'm assuming he'd get in - but I'll tell him to sign up for the LSAT again and retake it...

BYU averages the scores. I would advise him only to retake it if he scored much lower than he was scoring on his practice exams. If he was within his predicted range, then retaking it probably won't help much, and might actually hurt.

[Commando]

Here's last year's BYU stats. Obviously, the data reported are from a limited sample size.

http://byu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0809/

damn that's a scary graph! anyone can go on there and see what I got by clicking on my year. I need to switch up my username once in a while...

[Babs]

This is perfect. Based on this graph - he's right on the bubble. I'm assuming he'd get in - but I'll tell him to sign up for the LSAT again and retake it...

I wouldn't assume that. Not if he's white and male and 24 and on the bubble.

And like I said (donut, too), BYU takes the average score. They use a metric. Don't have him retake unless he's confident he can score at least two points higher. Even a one or two point drop will be enough to kill his chances at BYU.

[TripletDaddy]

if his dad is a seven figure donor, he should skip law school and just go work for his dad as a paralegal. surf on weekends and wear a bluetooth headset in his used convertible 2005 porsche boxster S.

[Babs]

if his dad is a seven figure donor, he should skip law school and just go work for his dad as a paralegal.

seriously. I think half of JD grads are ending up as paralegals, anyway.

[WashingtonCoug]

Here's last year's BYU stats. Obviously, the data reported are from a limited sample size.

http://byu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/0809/

Wow who got wait listed with the 157 on the LSAT and a 2.77 GPA in 2008-2009. That student must have a parent that heavily influences BYU.

[Clark Addison]

Also, the closer he is to the Married White Mormon Returned Missionary with Two Kids demographic, the less likely he is to get in

LSAT is about 5/6ths, unless you're a minority.

I wouldn't assume that. Not if he's white and male and 24 and on the bubble.

Who has the "Summon ExUte" banner?