Travel Thread

[creekster]

As a change of topic:

I am planning a trip to Germany. I think we will drive from Koln north up through Bremerhaven, Lubeck and then over to Berlin, before going South to Leipzig and Wittenberg. Does anyone have any suggestions for stops in Northern Germany, any Hanseatic League 'cant miss' places to see? Or even specific suggestions for towns to stay over in? TIA.

[creekster]

lol this is so stupid. JL and creek will argue about absolutely anything.

Yes! I agree.

Stupid is as stupid does.

[creekster]

Ha. No, I am not retreating from the vegas comparison. I am just saying that I could have used a different city to make the original point (I am guessing you would have nitpicked those comparisons). But I like vegas the best for the reasons stated. And like I said, I first heard the analogy from a dutch friend. Funny how that point didn't deter you from your doggedness.

By the way, it appears that you need to get busy correcting a ton of people on the internet:

https://dutchreview.com/featured/sin-city-wars-amsterdam-versus-las-vegas/

Sin City of the world list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_City_(description)

Top 10 Sin Cities: Amsterdam = #3 Sin City. Vegas = #5

http://top-10-list.org/2013/02/03/top-10-sin-cities/

Those wankers in Vegas need to get busy. Two spots behind.

Amazing. "It doesn't need to be Vegas but see all the people that agree that Vegas is the same?" Those links (one by the noted writer "guest author") might be useful if you want to suggest that prostitution and marijuana are both available in Amsterdam. I would not have 'nitpicked' that claim. The problem is that you didn't make that claim. In fact, now you insist that YOUR point doesn't require the Vegas analogy. If that is true, then the similarities are irrelevant. The only pertinent factor is whether or not the city is typical of the rest of the country. It looks like you are ready and willing to use any argument, in any way, as long as you can claim you won. Good job.

One can visit both Amsterdam and Vegas and not use drugs or frequent prostitutes. This stands to reason and is consistent with my personal experience (and yours, I assume). The question we were talking about, I thought, was whether Amsterdam is 'like' Vegas. It is not. No one arrives in Amsterdam the first time and thinks "Yup, just like Vegas." It is just not a good comparison (and not even a comparison made in the links you are now posting, which claim only that you can engage in some vice there more easily).

But the most amazing thing, perhaps, is that you continue to assert that I am too willing to argue and am too much of a mitpicker, etc., but then you go out and find links and quote them and make inconsistent arguments at great length. Whatever.

Look, if you or anyone want to think of Amsterdam as being like Vegas, go ahead. It's a foolish comparison, but you are entitled to it. If you want to say "don't judge the Netherlands based on the availability of hash and hookers in Amsterdam" you are making a good point, and I don't disagree. But it would be nice if you decide what you mean before you say it.

[YOhio]

Yes! I agree.

Sure you agree. But not enough to leave it alone.

[Jeff Lebowski]

lol this is so stupid. JL and creek will argue about absolutely anything.

Yes! I agree.

[YOhio]

lol this is so stupid. JL and creek will argue about absolutely anything.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Of course your original quote was not at all what you ended up saying. And if all you meant was saying that visiting one city of a nation might result in a skewed view of that country, you could say that for almost any large city in almost any developed nation. But you picked Vegas for the comparison, claimed that this specific comparison was made all the time by your Dutch friends, and referred to sex museums and red light districts, etc., to make your specific Vegas-themed point. You tell me that I missed your point, but you never asserted it could have been ANY city until now, which is sort of curious if that was always your point. And, now, apparently deciding that maybe the comparison wasn't so great, you retreat to the "original" position and claim that all the ensuing discussion was due to my super pedantic and nitpicking comments (you didn't actually say it was me, and I suppose it might have been the others that also disagreed with your observation, but somehow I am pretty sure the passive voice was meant for me).

I agree fully this was a minor thing. And it certainly doesn't merit this much discussion, but, to be honest, I get tired of being accused of pedantry and nitpicking (particularly when, as here, it was neither) whenever you are tired of an argument and do something so transparently silly as claim you never meant Vegas when that was the entire point of the discussion that you began and continued.

Ha. No, I am not retreating from the vegas comparison. I am just saying that I could have used a different city to make the original point (I am guessing you would have nitpicked those comparisons). But I like vegas the best for the reasons stated. And like I said, I first heard the analogy from a dutch friend. Funny how that point didn't deter you from your doggedness.

By the way, it appears that you need to get busy correcting a ton of people on the internet:

https://dutchreview.com/featured/sin-city-wars-amsterdam-versus-las-vegas/

Amsterdam, NL and Las Vegas, Nevada both have the nickname Sin City. That’s right, “what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas”. I propose a saying that “what happens in Amsterdam, no one gives a rip”. Either way, you crawl away with reputation intact (somehow). So how do the two with Sin City of the northern hemisphere reputations stack up for a visit, not just in “adult entertainment” aspects?

Sin City of the world list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_City_(description)

The Netherlands
Amsterdam (prostitution, brothels, strip clubs, sex shops, sex shows, marijuana consumption)[3][6]

Top 10 Sin Cities: Amsterdam = #3 Sin City. Vegas = #5

http://top-10-list.org/2013/02/03/top-10-sin-cities/

Those wankers in Vegas need to get busy. Two spots behind.

[Moliere]

Of course your original quote was not at all what you ended up saying. And if all you meant was saying that visiting one city of a nation might result in a skewed view of that country, you could say that for almost any large city in almost any developed nation. But you picked Vegas for the comparison, claimed that this specific comparison was made all the time by your Dutch friends, and referred to sex museums and red light districts, etc., to make your specific Vegas-themed point. You tell me that I missed your point, but you never asserted it could have been ANY city until now, which is sort of curious if that was always your point. And, now, apparently deciding that maybe the comparison wasn't so great, you retreat to the "original" position and claim that all the ensuing discussion was due to my super pedantic and nitpicking comments (you didn't actually say it was me, and I suppose it might have been the others that also disagreed with your observation, but somehow I am pretty sure the passive voice was meant for me).

I agree fully this was a minor thing. And it certainly doesn't merit this much discussion, but, to be honest, I get tired of being accused of pedantry and nitpicking (particularly when, as here, it was neither) whenever you are tired of an argument and do something so transparently silly as claim you never meant Vegas when that was the entire point of the discussion that you began and continued.

[creekster]

This was my original quote:



For that analogy to work, Vegas and Amsterdam don't even need to be similar. They just need to be unique enough that only visiting that city would give a skewed view of the country. I could have used New York or New Orleans and it would have worked.

Unless of course you are super pedantic and you feel compelled to nitpick trivial stuff like this to death.

Of course your original quote was not at all what you ended up saying. And if all you meant was saying that visiting one city of a nation might result in a skewed view of that country, you could say that for almost any large city in almost any developed nation. But you picked Vegas for the comparison, claimed that this specific comparison was made all the time by your Dutch friends, and referred to sex museums and red light districts, etc., to make your specific Vegas-themed point. You tell me that I missed your point, but you never asserted it could have been ANY city until now, which is sort of curious if that was always your point. And, now, apparently deciding that maybe the comparison wasn't so great, you retreat to the "original" position and claim that all the ensuing discussion was due to my super pedantic and nitpicking comments (you didn't actually say it was me, and I suppose it might have been the others that also disagreed with your observation, but somehow I am pretty sure the passive voice was meant for me).

I agree fully this was a minor thing. And it certainly doesn't merit this much discussion, but, to be honest, I get tired of being accused of pedantry and nitpicking (particularly when, as here, it was neither) whenever you are tired of an argument and do something so transparently silly as claim you never meant Vegas when that was the entire point of the discussion that you began and continued.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I said nothing about Vegas, I just think it has nothing in common with Amsterdam. So I guess you used that comparison because you really wanted to compliment Amsterdam?

This was my original quote:

People going to the Netherlands and only seeing Amsterdam is like coming to the USA and only visiting Vegas.

For that analogy to work, Vegas and Amsterdam don't even need to be similar. They just need to be unique enough that only visiting that city would give a skewed view of the country. I could have used New York or New Orleans and it would have worked.

Unless of course you are super pedantic and you feel compelled to nitpick trivial stuff like this to death.

[Jeff Lebowski]

And hot as hell to boot! What in the world are we doing here?!

Because it is super nice in the winter!

[happyone]

I spoke with then-apostle Hinckley when he visited the mission (with Pres. Lee) in August '73, so maybe? And nice memories about your visit... The General Walker hotel, run by the U.S. armed forces, may have been the top R&R destination for European personnel. During my time there, we were teaching an American soldier who had been a draft dodger in Canada but thought better of it and submitted himself to the Selective Service. His assignment? He served as the lifeguard at the General Walker Hotel in the summer and as head of the ski patrol during the winter. "Man, I can't believe I was avoiding the draft when I get to do this!," he often told us. Of course, some of his contemporaries didn't fare as well.

We came home in the Summer of '73, when dad left the Army. Yes they are good memories.

I wish I had taken advantage of my brothers being stationed in Germany in the 90s and early 00s. One was in Heidelberg and the other Garmish!

When I retire...

Speaking of cushy jobs in the Viet Nam era military, we had a kid in our branch who was the afternoon DJ for AFN Nuremberg

As to the last statement - don't I know it

[myboynoah]

The problem with analogies is that people sometimes expect a perfect match. That is not how analogies work.

I didn't expect a perfect match, but the Amsterdam/Vegas analogy surprised me based on my experience. There is much more to Amsterdam than hedonism. Vegas exists for the hedonism (plus it's kitschy, plastic, and hot as hell).

[Topper]

Anybody been to the Galapagos before? Did you scuba dive while there?

[PaloAltoCougar]

When my family went to Berchtesgaden, we always stayed at the Gen Walker. When the Army downsized in the early 90's most of the Army stuff was closed and torn down. We went 4 or 5 times while we lived in Germany. The semi-annual Mormon Serviceman's Retreats were held there. One time Dad decided to blow off the afternoon session, take the family and hike up to the Eagles Nest (EN) starting at the Gen Walker. My brother and I got into a race. We got to the top about 30 minutes ahead of the family, just as the visiting GA were coming out of the EN and rode down with them on their bus and that night my brother and I had dinner with Elder Hinkley and Elder Ashton. If I have my dates right, it was probably about the same time you were wandering around Austria.

I spoke with then-apostle Hinckley when he visited the mission (with Pres. Lee) in August '73, so maybe? And nice memories about your visit... The General Walker hotel, run by the U.S. armed forces, may have been the top R&R destination for European personnel. During my time there, we were teaching an American soldier who had been a draft dodger in Canada but thought better of it and submitted himself to the Selective Service. His assignment? He served as the lifeguard at the General Walker Hotel in the summer and as head of the ski patrol during the winter. "Man, I can't believe I was avoiding the draft when I get to do this!," he often told us. Of course, some of his contemporaries didn't fare as well.