Let your light shine or Keep it on the DL?

[Goatnapper'96]

Yes. Good stuff. But you bring up something interesting: you said that WHY we do something is as important as WHAT we do. That is the crux of the philosophical question here. Is why you do something REALLY as important as what you do? Can't you think of a lot of instances where that's not the case? I can think of a lot.

I think saying that WHY you do something is ALSO important is probably more valid than AS important.

I think that some BOM Prophet talked about "thoughts, words and deeds" and the extrapolation is that they influence each other. I believe they do and I also believe the causality can work in reverse. Ergo even if our truest desires do not align with God's but in the abstract we would like to get there someday there is benefit in doing good because the deeds can influence what we say and what we think/want.

As far as whether intent is as important as actions I can't really say. I can say that when I read scriptures it becomes clear to me that intent is vitally important to God.

[taekwondave]

If he could handle non-binary thinking, he'd probably still be in the church.

Ah yes, the old no real scotsman gaslight "the REAL church is actually great and true just not the way YOU mistakenly thought it was. Only an idiot would have thought when we taught x,y or z that we actually MEANT x,y or z. or would have thought we were hiding a,b or c just because you were never taught a,b or c. You just didn't pray hard enough or think hard enough or pay enough tithing!"

Save that shit for another discussion, man.

[taekwondave]

I think that some BOM Prophet talked about "thoughts, words and deeds" and the extrapolation is that they influence each other. I believe they do and I also believe the causality can work in reverse. Ergo even if our truest desires do not align with God's but in the abstract we would like to get there someday there is benefit in doing good because the deeds can influence what we say and what we think/want.

As far as whether intent is as important as actions I can't really say. I can say that when I read scriptures it becomes clear to me that intent is vitally important to God.

Good answer.

[Pelado]

No I'm quite sure it's not a scripture. That's why I asked you what your thought on it was--I wasn't throwing it at you as some form of authoritative scriptural argument.

As to your statement regarding sincerity, that seems to go back to intent, which is where most other people are going with this. Do you think that's what Jesus is getting at here? Intent/sincerity?

Jesus seemed pretty clear with his philosophy:

1) Love God
2) Love your fellow man

Everything else is an appendage of those two laws. If the motivation for your actions is something other than those two laws (getting the glory yourself, personal enrichment, etc.), then you're not Christian kosher.

[Moliere]

Let your light shine or Keep it on the DL?

Do good things but don't brag about them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moliere]

Let your light shine or Keep it on the DL?

...

[taekwondave]

It's OK. I have kind of an Exmo ministry. I'm usually very gentle. But I lose my patience from time to time. This issue is one I'm losing it over.

Wait. I take it back. Not because of anything you said, but because I just realized how the Lighttheworld thing came into my head and why I decided to write this: it's not from exmormon, it's from right here on cougarstadium. The fourt thread down in the Foyer says #Lighttheworld. Trying to paint me as some angry exmo--I got it from you guys! Ha! I feel good about myself again.

[jay santos]

Wait. I take it back. Not because of anything you said, but because I just realized how the Lighttheworld thing came into my head and why I decided to write this: it's not from exmormon, it's from right here on cougarstadium. The fourt thread down in the Foyer says #Lighttheworld. Trying to paint me as some angry exmo--I got it from you guys! Ha! I feel good about myself again.

You're more endearing as the groupthink Exmo than the wannabe intellectual.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Okay, first, TKD, it's nice having you around as you provoke some entertaining and often provocative discussions. But I smiled when I read your OP because it was nearly verbatim a question posed to Truman Madsen at the beginning of a philosophy class I took more than 40 years ago. He took it in good humor, but said he got asked that question by nearly every sophomore, and I was uncertain then if he was referring to class or personality type.

Anyway, the scriptures are filled with what we sophomores called Gospel Paradoxes, such as (i) "Let your moderation be known unto all men" vs "because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth," (ii) "take up my cross" vs. "my yoke is easy and my burden is light," (iii) the scriptures you cite, and many more. But understanding context, nuance, and intent go a long way toward resolving the apparent conflicts.

When I teach this in Sunday School, I put everyone to sleep talking about the two essential elements of a crime: the actus reus and the mens rea; the physical act and the mental state. I can shoot someone in the face on Fifth Avenue and depending on context and mens rea, I might get life in prison, a suspended sentence, a medal, confinement to an insane asylum or, I suppose, the Presidency. Not only is the mental state a critical factor, it's sometimes even more significant than the act itself.

So it is with good works. That's why I have mixed feelings about discussing the good things one might be doing for others. But I like hearing the acts of others because it makes me want to become a better, more caring person.

[taekwondave]

Okay, first, TKD, it's nice having you around as you provoke some entertaining and often provocative discussions. But I smiled when I read your OP because it was nearly verbatim a question posed to Truman Madsen at the beginning of a philosophy class I took more than 40 years ago. He took it in good humor, but said he got asked that question by nearly every sophomore, and I was uncertain then if he was referring to class or personality type.

Anyway, the scriptures are filled with what we sophomores called Gospel Paradoxes, such as (i) "Let your moderation be known unto all men" vs "because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth," (ii) "take up my cross" vs. "my yoke is easy and my burden is light," (iii) the scriptures you cite, and many more. But understanding context, nuance, and intent go a long way toward resolving the apparent conflicts.

When I teach this in Sunday School, I put everyone to sleep talking about the two essential elements of a crime: the actus reus and the mens rea; the physical act and the mental state. I can shoot someone in the face on Fifth Avenue and depending on context and mens rea, I might get life in prison, a suspended sentence, a medal, confinement to an insane asylum or, I suppose, the Presidency. Not only is the mental state a critical factor, it's sometimes even more significant than the act itself.

So it is with good works. That's why I have mixed feelings about discussing the good things one might be doing for others. But I like hearing the acts of others because it makes me want to become a better, more caring person.

Yeah I'm familiar with the legal terms. I mentioned that in a post above. I guess I can see why everyone here was so confused by the question, since the answer is, like always with the Mormon community: just follow the spirit! (I think I just remembered why I stopped liking gospel doctrine classes )

Of course if we actually looked at some of the decisions people have made over the years while following their version of the spirit, I doubt we'd give that as an answer as often.

[falafel]

Yeah I'm familiar with the legal terms. I mentioned that in a post above. I guess I can see why everyone here was so confused by the question, since the answer is, like always with the Mormon community: just follow the spirit! (I think I just remembered why I stopped liking gospel doctrine classes )

Of course if we actually looked at some of the decisions people have made over the years while following their version of the spirit, I doubt we'd give that as an answer as often.

Way to boil PAC's eloquent response down to a trite phrase that does not begin to relate to his point.

[taekwondave]

You're more endearing as the groupthink Exmo than the wannabe intellectual.

Fart.

[taekwondave]

Way to boil PAC's eloquent response down to a trite phrase that does not begin to relate to his point.

Eloquent? Starts by calling me a college sophomore (or rather, allowing the mighty Truman Madsen to) , continues by stating the obvious--that contradictions exist in the scriptures (duh--that's the topic of the thread) then breaking down basic legal terms/theory I already know and acknowledged previously, and then yes, ending his post with a paragraph that acknowledged the difficulty of applying the question in our lives. That last part was good, the rest bordered on pompous. Hardly eloquent and far from his best stuff.

Did you have anything to add to the discussion or are you just gonna armchair qb this thing?

[old_gregg]

tkd i continue to enjoy your novel, interesting and compelling takes on subjects like these. don't let the haters get you down bro.

[Bo Diddley]

Starts by calling me a college sophomore (or rather, allowing the mighty Truman Madsen to)

Either you're not a student of PAC, or you didn't really read his post, or both.