If it were the Pac-12...

[Sizzle]

And assume BYU and Utah were added... realistically, where do you think they finish? I'd have to say it would probably look about like this:

1) USC
2) Oregon
3) Cal
4) Oregon State
5) Arizona State
6) BYU
7) Utah
8) Stanford
9) UCLA
10) Arizona
11) Washington
12) Washington State

I could buy an argument that BYU or Utah could reach as high as 3rd this year, but realistically speaking, I think the 5-8 range is probably where they would finish. And I think this is a fairly strong year for BYU and Utah. Maybe I'm off base and underestimating their talent levels and abilities, but I think it is realistic to expect 3 or 4 conference losses for both BYU and Utah if they were to play that type of schedule all year.

[Indy Coug]

In about 3 years, people would tire of the thrill of having a more exciting scheudule because it would leave BYU struggling to win more than 7 games a year.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

A lot would depend on how the divisions were set up. When the B12 made divisions they set up the north for Nebraska to continue forever as King of the conference. However now they have fallen schools like Mizzou and Kansas are now considered good.

I would imagine that the P12 would set up a division with the cupcakes of the conf in one division then if USC ever came to a Nebraska like demise it would open the door for some other teams.

The divisions would have to be divided by rivalries for the non-LA schools to even consider it something like;
Division A
Washington State
Oregon State
Cal
USC
Arizona
BYU

Division B
Washington
Oregon
Stanford
UCLA
Arizona State
Utah


Given a set up like that I could see each school having a really good year every 2-4 years challenging for a BCS game. However much like Texas Tech, the school that gets stuck in the beat yourself to death division will probably always have 3+ losses and have to schedule a load of super cupcakes every year just to maintain a record the fan base can stand.

[DrumNFeather]

It would be interesting to see how much a move like this would impact recruiting. BYU and Utah are already in the top 5 recruiting for Non-BCS teams. I know at least for the Utes, they would be far less likely to ever lose out to any of those teams (outside of USC and Oregon) for recruits. I suspect BYU would be the same.

[Indy Coug]

It would be interesting to see how much a move like this would impact recruiting. BYU and Utah are already in the top 5 recruiting for Non-BCS teams. I know at least for the Utes, they would be far less likely to ever lose out to any of those teams (outside of USC and Oregon) for recruits. I suspect BYU would be the same.

It would help Utah far more than BYU. BYU has existing constraints that aren't going to change regardless of conference affiliation.

[byu71]

It would help Utah far more than BYU. BYU has existing constraints that aren't going to change regardless of conference affiliation.

I actually think you are right and probably why you and others have a good argument for not getting into a BCS league and a better schedule.

You would rather be in a weaker league, win 10 games and claim we are getting screwed having to go to a bowl game like the Vegas bowl.

[Indy Coug]

I actually think you are right and probably why you and others have a good argument for not getting into a BCS league and a better schedule.

You would rather be in a weaker league, win 10 games and claim we are getting screwed having to go to a bowl game like the Vegas bowl.

I'm giving you my honest assessment of what the average BYU fan's reaction will be once the honeymoon period wears off. I think another thing that needs to be considered is what the cumulative effect of being a middle-tier PAC12 team (at best) has on recruiting.

Does that cut down your national TV appearances? Does it keep you out of the rankings? Does it give you a better shot at the BCS than being the top dog in the MWC? Those factor into a recruit's thinking.

There's always a trade-off.

[byu71]

I'm giving you my honest assessment of what the average BYU fan's reaction will be once the honeymoon period wears off. I think another thing that needs to be considered is what the cumulative effect of being a middle-tier PAC12 team (at best) has on recruiting.

Does that cut down your national TV appearances? Does it keep you out of the rankings? Does it give you a better shot at the BCS than being the top dog in the MWC? Those factor into a recruit's thinking.

There's always a trade-off.

I think you are right, I think I am in the minority. I would rather be a Oregon St., Arizona St. than a BYU heading off to the Vegas Bowl. Would I rather be a Utah than those schools, maybe. Perhaps with the recruiting success, we actually become a Utah and the argument from my vantage point becomes weaker.

The killer would be if Utah got into the PAC10 and we didn't. If you don't think there would be a lot of fan support switch from the Cougars to the Utes, you would be kidding yourself. Hate em if you want, but there are a lot of BYU fans who are football fans. They have been or became BYU fans because of the athletic success.

[Borg]

A couple of thought.

IF....BYU & Utah were in the PAC 12, AND they finished middle of the road, say, 5th or 6th....they would STILL be heading off to the Vegas Bowl, and sharing in all the booty from those above them that are playing in the BCS Bowl due to conference affiliation.

I think it's more than just finishing in the middle of the pack, it's having access to the cash to enable you to survive financially in the athletic arena.

So, BYU could get it's head handed to them in 3-4 games a year, and still play in the exact same bowl we do now...and get the infusion of BCS money. It's a no brainer.

[byu71]

A couple of thought.

IF....BYU & Utah were in the PAC 12, AND they finished middle of the road, say, 5th or 6th....they would STILL be heading off to the Vegas Bowl, and sharing in all the booty from those above them that are playing in the BCS Bowl due to conference affiliation.

I think it's more than just finishing in the middle of the pack, it's having access to the cash to enable you to survive financially in the athletic arena.

So, BYU could get it's head handed to them in 3-4 games a year, and still play in the exact same bowl we do now...and get the infusion of BCS money. It's a no brainer.

I call it the "church basketball" mentality. With church BB not as big a deal now as when I was a kid, this probably doesn't happen anymore. However, I knew kids who were good enough to make the HS BB team. Not start, but could make the team and play some. They preferred to be the star on the church BB team. That is their choice and maybe it was a lot more fun for them.

That's not for me. I would have rather ridden the bench on the HS team. Fortunately I wasn't good enough to even get on the bench, so I was the star on the church BB team without having to make the choice.

[Brian]

The killer would be if Utah got into the PAC10 and we didn't. If you don't think there would be a lot of fan support switch from the Cougars to the Utes, you would be kidding yourself. Hate em if you want, but there are a lot of BYU fans who are football fans. They have been or became BYU fans because of the athletic success.

I've never met anyone who I think would switch.

Would anyone here switch loyalties?

[pellegrino]

A lot would depend on how the divisions were set up. When the B12 made divisions they set up the north for Nebraska to continue forever as King of the conference. However now they have fallen schools like Mizzou and Kansas are now considered good.

I would imagine that the P12 would set up a division with the cupcakes of the conf in one division then if USC ever came to a Nebraska like demise it would open the door for some other teams.

The divisions would have to be divided by rivalries for the non-LA schools to even consider it something like;
Division A
Washington State
Oregon State
Cal
USC
Arizona
BYU

Division B
Washington
Oregon
Stanford
UCLA
Arizona State
Utah


Given a set up like that I could see each school having a really good year every 2-4 years challenging for a BCS game. However much like Texas Tech, the school that gets stuck in the beat yourself to death division will probably always have 3+ losses and have to schedule a load of super cupcakes every year just to maintain a record the fan base can stand.

Why is it whenever anyone talks about BYU being in the middle of a potential PAC 12 they forget this most important point? It's not like you take all twelve teams, put them in a lineup and then assign them a pecking order. A twelve team conference is essentially two conferences, you don't play everyone every year and the most important goal is to win your division. Do that and you'll consistently be at the top, The only way I don't see us challenging for a divisional championship most years is if we are placed in the same division as USC. All of the other current PAC-10 teams are likely wins at home and 50/50 away.

[BoylenOver]

And assume BYU and Utah were added... realistically, where do you think they finish? I'd have to say it would probably look about like this:

1) USC
2) Oregon
3) Cal
4) Oregon State
5) Arizona State
6) BYU
7) Utah
8) Stanford
9) UCLA
10) Arizona
11) Washington
12) Washington State

I could buy an argument that BYU or Utah could reach as high as 3rd this year, but realistically speaking, I think the 5-8 range is probably where they would finish. And I think this is a fairly strong year for BYU and Utah. Maybe I'm off base and underestimating their talent levels and abilities, but I think it is realistic to expect 3 or 4 conference losses for both BYU and Utah if they were to play that type of schedule all year.

Call me a homer, but depending on how the schedule played out, I think BYU and Utah could go 9-3 or 10-2 with a PAC-10 schedule this year. Especially if it was 12 teams and we could miss out on one or more of USC/Cal/Oregon/Oregon St.

[byu71]

I've never met anyone who I think would switch.

Would anyone here switch loyalties?

Under the right circumstances I can think of about 15 who would either switch or would follow BYU less than they do now.

Also, you would have to define loyalties. Since I don't hate Utah like a lot fans, it wouldn't be hard for me to pull for them.

[TripletDaddy]

Why is it whenever anyone talks about BYU being in the middle of a potential PAC 12 they forget this most important point? It's not like you take all twelve teams, put them in a lineup and then assign them a pecking order. A twelve team conference is essentially two conferences, you don't play everyone every year and the most important goal is to win your division. Do that and you'll consistently be at the top, The only way I don't see us challenging for a divisional championship most years is if we are placed in the same division as USC. All of the other current PAC-10 teams are likely wins at home and 50/50 away.

Given that our all-time record against the Pac 10 is 32-57-1, I am going to go ahead and disagree with your assessment that PAC10 teams (current or no) are "likely" wins at home and 50/50 away.