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Remembering Scott Norberg

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  • Remembering Scott Norberg

    Caught a bit of BYU-UCLA 1983 on ESPN U yesterday and seeing Norberg playing brought back questions about his death. His death/murder is one of the most shocking instances of official brutality and the capacity of people to do harm to other people - even w/o true provocation - that I've ever seen.

    For those of you unfamiliar with the circumstances they are detailed here http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1999-...norberg-remix/

    He was a good man who developed a drug addiction, suffered for it and died an utterly senseless death while, along the way, communicating movingly with his father about his ordeal.

    Below is a small anecdote from my own life - a single encounter with Norberg when I was 10 - that I wrote a long time ago.
    --------------------------------------------------

    When I was a 10 or 11 year old kid (I can't remember now if it was the summer of 85 or of 84 I had come out to stay with my sister and her husband for a couple of weeks in Provo and had (total dream for me at that age) free range of BYU's campus as they lived just to the south of it.

    Summer practices were under way and every day that I could I'd go hang out by the practice field and try and peek through and then stand by the entrance as practice started and ended to see my favorite players.

    I was a little kid wearing a Danny White jersey and carrying a football (I used be a devoted Cowboy fan until the Great Apostasy of Jerry Jones and Michael Irvin and my conversion to SteveYoungism and Hometownteamism being a Nor Cal kid). Players would usually just walk by about their business, sometimes they'd give a smile and a wave at the awed little punk.

    Then one day I was standing there with my ball about ten feet from the exit when Scott Norberg came out. He saw me, gave a smile, noted my jersey, put his hands up and said "gimme a ball, White."

    I was enough of a junky (and had studied the BYU football programs and read up and down on the rosters enough times) that I knew who he was. I turned, set my feet and delivered a perfect spiral, the only pass (as I like to say) that I ever completed at the D-1 level. He caught it and exclaimed "nice spiral buddy!!". I had a pen with me (in the event of autographs) and asked him if he'd sign the ball. He did, asked my name and stopped two other passing players (Mark Bellini and Richard Orr) to stop and sign as well. (Sadly the ball had disappeared from my room when I returned from my mission and to this day I don't know where it is).

    When I read the story of Norberg's death and how he died and how desperately he wanted and tried to break free of his addiction it impacted me as deeply as anything I've read in a long time has. I am increasingly wary of condemning people who deal with addictions of that sort and far more aware of the scale of the tragedy involved.
    Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

    It can't all be wedding cake.

  • #2
    Corrected link

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1999-...norberg-remix/
    Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

    It can't all be wedding cake.

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    • #3
      thanks for posting that ox. very sad. sheriff joe is a thug and a horse's ass. that story breaks my heart

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      • #4
        Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
        thanks for posting that ox. very sad. sheriff joe is a thug and a horse's ass. that story breaks my heart
        Yes. I get e-mails periodically from my relatives touting how great sheriff joe is based on some new cruelty he has inflicted on his prisoners or some wacko comment he has made to the press. I just respond with the Scott Norberg link in oxcoug's post and it is always interesting to see the reaction.
        "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
        "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
        "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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        • #5
          Holy crap. I've never heard or read this story before, but I remember Norberg. That's pretty tough to read.
          At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
          -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

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          • #6
            You want to know what else these asshole sheriffs did? They immediately mopped up the floor and then the body's larynx just happened to go missing after the autopsy. That asshole Arpaio likes to point out that the the Feds didn't do anything about it- well that's because the crime scene was scrubbed down and at least one critical piece of evidence from the body just disappeared.
            Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

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            • #7
              Yeah, it's as wrenching a story as I'm aware of

              Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
              Holy crap. I've never heard or read this story before, but I remember Norberg. That's pretty tough to read.

              The guy obviously had a ton of depth, soul and potential and it makes his tragedy feel so much more intense.
              Ute-ī sunt fīmī differtī

              It can't all be wedding cake.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                Yes. I get e-mails periodically from my relatives touting how great sheriff joe is based on some new cruelty he has inflicted on his prisoners or some wacko comment he has made to the press. I just respond with the Scott Norberg link in oxcoug's post and it is always interesting to see the reaction.
                I'll play devil's advocate. I lived in Phoenix when this happened and I remember seeing the video on the news. First off, prison/jail personnel can't simply treat prisoners with a gentle touch. If the melee was provoked by a sleeping Norberg simply not hearing his name, that is truly tragic. But let's not forget that Norberg was delusional in the time leading up to his arrest. I have no doubt that had he stopped fighting, he'd be alive today. But the video I saw was not of a man who was simply taking his beating, but a man who was being obstinate and attempting to inflict harm upon the jail personnel.

                Finally, I'm not sure that death wasn't the best thing for Scott in the long run. Hopefully he found some respite from his tortured life.
                Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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                • #9
                  That article is heartbreaking.
                  But I just found some of that video, and you can't see any of what that guy is talking about. You can't really see any abuse at all. But I don't doubt that there was clear abuse in the case and that the death shouldn't have occurred

                  Sad story all around..

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RedSox View Post
                    I'll play devil's advocate. I lived in Phoenix when this happened and I remember seeing the video on the news. First off, prison/jail personnel can't simply treat prisoners with a gentle touch. If the melee was provoked by a sleeping Norberg simply not hearing his name, that is truly tragic. But let's not forget that Norberg was delusional in the time leading up to his arrest. I have no doubt that had he stopped fighting, he'd be alive today. But the video I saw was not of a man who was simply taking his beating, but a man who was being obstinate and attempting to inflict harm upon the jail personnel.

                    Finally, I'm not sure that death wasn't the best thing for Scott in the long run. Hopefully he found some respite from his tortured life.
                    Even if he was fighting back thosecops went way over board, and they knew it which is why they did what they could to get rid of evidence.

                    And death is not the best thing for a guy that was so young and in good health.
                    "Not at the table Carlos"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RedSox View Post
                      I'll play devil's advocate. I lived in Phoenix when this happened and I remember seeing the video on the news. First off, prison/jail personnel can't simply treat prisoners with a gentle touch. If the melee was provoked by a sleeping Norberg simply not hearing his name, that is truly tragic. But let's not forget that Norberg was delusional in the time leading up to his arrest. I have no doubt that had he stopped fighting, he'd be alive today. But the video I saw was not of a man who was simply taking his beating, but a man who was being obstinate and attempting to inflict harm upon the jail personnel.

                      Finally, I'm not sure that death wasn't the best thing for Scott in the long run. Hopefully he found some respite from his tortured life.
                      Is that why Maricopa County paid his family almost $9 million to settle a lawsuit?

                      I don't know what happened to the cops in terms of their job status or criminal prosecutions. Does anyone know? I think Sherriff Joe is still Sherrif, isn't he?

                      Your last paragraph is reprehensible.
                      When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                      --Jonathan Swift

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bengal Cougar View Post
                        Even if he was fighting back thosecops went way over board, and they knew it which is why they did what they could to get rid of evidence.

                        And death is not the best thing for a guy that was so young and in good health.
                        I'm not sure that cleaning up blood after a fight is obstruction of evidence. It's probably just cleaning up.
                        Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                        "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RedSox View Post
                          I'll play devil's advocate. I lived in Phoenix when this happened and I remember seeing the video on the news. First off, prison/jail personnel can't simply treat prisoners with a gentle touch. If the melee was provoked by a sleeping Norberg simply not hearing his name, that is truly tragic. But let's not forget that Norberg was delusional in the time leading up to his arrest. I have no doubt that had he stopped fighting, he'd be alive today. But the video I saw was not of a man who was simply taking his beating, but a man who was being obstinate and attempting to inflict harm upon the jail personnel.

                          Finally, I'm not sure that death wasn't the best thing for Scott in the long run. Hopefully he found some respite from his tortured life.
                          WTH is wrong with you? Did you torture small animals as a child?
                          "It's true that everything happens for a reason. Just remember that sometimes that reason is that you did something really, really, stupid."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                            Is that why Maricopa County paid his family almost $9 million to settle a lawsuit?

                            I don't know what happened to the cops in terms of their job status or criminal prosecutions. Does anyone know? I think Sherriff Joe is still Sherrif, isn't he?

                            Your last paragraph is reprehensible.

                            Yes, Sherriff Joe is still Sherriff. As you well know, settling a suit is not an admission of guilt. Was it mishandled? Certainly.

                            I won't apologize for my last paragraph. The text of his letter to his father shows that he was a tortured soul, and hopefully he found some measure of peace in the hereafter.
                            Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                            "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FMCoug View Post
                              WTH is wrong with you? Did you torture small animals as a child?
                              No, I didn't. I'm not saying "he deserved death." What I'm saying is that there are certain people who are better off passing from this life than staying here and suffering.

                              Lest you think I'm completely nuts, I feel this very way about my father. His life has been 65 years of hell, and sometimes I just wish he could find his way out and rest (and he's my very best friend).
                              Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                              "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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