PAC 10 fans…

[Guest]

What are your long-term thoughts on Stanford FB?

They have a $5 million dollar shortfall in the athletic budget this year. Stanford doesn't use endowment money on sports, so there will be major cuts of some kind.

Harbaugh is not lighting the world on fire (9-15), but his teams play hard and he has a nice recruiting class on the way. http://rivals100.rivals.com/commitli...2009&School=77

Their attendance issues have to do with the student body, alumni, etc. If they win, it will improve somewhat, but they'll never match the numbers across the Bay.

Does Stanford have a chance to complete with the top teams in the PAC10 in the next several years? Ever?

Someone has to be at the bottom. It will not be the UW forever. UO and OSU like being at the upper end and based on some the recruits at WSU, they'll start to get off the ground floor too.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SPRP15DRSG.DTL

[CJF]

What are your long-term thoughts on Stanford FB?

They have a $5 million dollar shortfall in the athletic budget this year. Stanford doesn't use endowment money on sports, so there will be major cuts of some kind.

Harbaugh is not lighting the world on fire (9-15), but his teams play hard and he has a nice recruiting class on the way. http://rivals100.rivals.com/commitli...2009&School=77

Their attendance issues have to do with the student body, alumni, etc. If they win, it will improve somewhat, but they'll never match the numbers across the Bay.

Does Stanford have a chance to complete with the top teams in the PAC10 in the next several years? Ever?

Someone has to be at the bottom. It will not be the UW forever. UO and OSU like being at the upper end and based on some the recruits at WSU, they'll start to get off the ground floor too.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SPRP15DRSG.DTL

Stanford sucking warms my heart. I hope they continue to lose money and continue to get worse.

[ERCougar]

Stanford sucking warms my heart. I hope they continue to lose money and continue to get worse.

Why? They're one of the only D1 programs (besides BYU, of course ) that can claim to care about academics at all. If recruits' parents truly gave a crap about their kids and not just about fulfilling a vicarious football career, they'd be much better than they are. Pretty sad.

[Solon]

Stanford sucking warms my heart. I hope they continue to lose money and continue to get worse.

I think that eventually some of these academically superior universities are going to have to decide between top-tier football and top-tier education, research, and resources. As the University of Chicago presciently decided in the 1940s, the amount of resources that must be dedicated to producing successful big-time football programs in many ways is detrimental to an educational and academic mission.

It's too bad, since I think intramural and intercollegiate athletics are an important part of the overall educational experience (sound mind in a sound body and all that), but I do think the non-money-making sports (and intramurals provide this to the student bodies to some degree.

Football is just too much money for too few students to make much sense. At some places, it's a money-maker. But only because it's run as a business, not as a component of a university education.

[Mormon Red Death]

I think that eventually some of these academically superior universities are going to have to decide between top-tier football and top-tier education, research, and resources. As the University of Chicago presciently decided in the 1940s, the amount of resources that must be dedicated to producing successful big-time football programs in many ways is detrimental to an educational and academic mission.

It's too bad, since I think intramural and intercollegiate athletics are an important part of the overall educational experience (sound mind in a sound body and all that), but I do think the non-money-making sports (and intramurals provide this to the student bodies to some degree.

Football is just too much money for too few students to make much sense. At some places, it's a money-maker. But only because it's run as a business, not as a component of a university education.

interesting little tidbit I found out about the U of Chicago. They are leasing their membership to the Big10 to Michigan St. As in if they wanted to go big time again they could revoke Michigan St. from using their Membership.

[Solon]

interesting little tidbit I found out about the U of Chicago. They are leasing their membership to the Big10 to Michigan St. As in if they wanted to go big time again they could revoke Michigan St. from using their Membership.

That would be pretty funny. A good F-You to the Spartans.

I know Chicago still participates in some of the Academic agreements of the Big-10. I can order books from their amazing library.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think that eventually some of these academically superior universities are going to have to decide between top-tier football and top-tier education, research, and resources. As the University of Chicago presciently decided in the 1940s, the amount of resources that must be dedicated to producing successful big-time football programs in many ways is detrimental to an educational and academic mission.

It's too bad, since I think intramural and intercollegiate athletics are an important part of the overall educational experience (sound mind in a sound body and all that), but I do think the non-money-making sports (and intramurals provide this to the student bodies to some degree.

Football is just too much money for too few students to make much sense. At some places, it's a money-maker. But only because it's run as a business, not as a component of a university education.

Help me understand this. Do you feel like the football program at Penn State diminishes your education? Is it somehow a zero-sum game?

[Solon]

Help me understand this. Do you feel like the football program at Penn State diminishes your education? Is it somehow a zero-sum game?

Of course it's not a zero-sum game. It just has to do with a school's priorities, in my opinion.

Penn State is a little bit of a different duck, since the football program pays for all the other sport programs, and JoePa is a big proponent of education. For instance, he singlehandedly saved the Classics department in the 1980s (according to the story), and he raised the money to build a new wing at the library, not to mention the numerous scholarships, fellowships, and a couple of endowed professor chairs he and his wife Sue have sponsored. But JoePa isn't going to be here forever (probably).

As a graduate student, my education is not really influenced by football. But for undergraduates, it means that a huge amount of fundraising, resources, etc. - hundreds of millions of dollars - are dedicated to a very small, elite group of students - less than a couple of hundred. At a more academically oriented school, that money might be used to address more generalized needs. Tuition goes up every year - Penn State is already the most expensive public university in the country - as do student fees, parking fees, etc.

In addition, I think the graduation rates of many D-1 powerhouse programs betray the scant emphasis on academics and the overall focus on winning games. At some of these schools, the academic requirements have become ancillary to the overall goals of these athletes. It's a neat inversion of the original intent, to foster a more rounded education in the student body by including physical education and athletics in the curriculum. Now, the athletes have to include a little bit of academics in their program.

Not that there's anything inherently wrong with this: universities are more and more adopting business models, and that model requires maximum profits. Football - at lucky schools - is an important source of revenue. So are the hot industries, such as business, IT, and other technology-based fields. The problem with football, though, is that it's not profitable at many schools, and requires a huge amount of money that is spent on a very small number of students.

There are generally two chief arguments to this position. Both have merits. The first is that the money raised from private sources wouldn't be available if it weren't going to football. Otherwise stated, these people give money to football, but wouldn't give it to the art program, or to the communications department, or whatever. Fair enough. People donate their money as they see fit.

The second argument is that having a successful football program benefits a lot of people. Students and alumni, as well as the community take pride in the accomplishments of their team, and those non-monetary rewards are well worth the cost.

Nevertheless, I think the dynamics and exigencies of big-time football remain at odds with an institution dedicated primarily to academic pursuits. I think a lot of places do a good job of being decent at both, but no school has proven itself to be top-notch in both, except maybe Michigan and a handful of others. But the Wolverines are the exception to a general rule.

Just my opinion, though.

[myboynoah]

That would be pretty funny. A good F-You to the Spartans.

I know Chicago still participates in some of the Academic agreements of the Big-10. I can order books from their amazing library.

Or put it out to the highest bidder. Have Toledo win the bid and replace M State.

[Solon]

Or put it out to the highest bidder. Have Toledo win the bid and replace M State.

It's a good idea, but it might be too embarrassing for the conference when Toledo wins the Big-10 and gets blown out by Florida in the BCS championship game in 2 years' time.

[SeattleUte]

What are your long-term thoughts on Stanford FB?

They have a $5 million dollar shortfall in the athletic budget this year. Stanford doesn't use endowment money on sports, so there will be major cuts of some kind.

Harbaugh is not lighting the world on fire (9-15), but his teams play hard and he has a nice recruiting class on the way. http://rivals100.rivals.com/commitli...2009&School=77

Their attendance issues have to do with the student body, alumni, etc. If they win, it will improve somewhat, but they'll never match the numbers across the Bay.

Does Stanford have a chance to complete with the top teams in the PAC10 in the next several years? Ever?

Someone has to be at the bottom. It will not be the UW forever. UO and OSU like being at the upper end and based on some the recruits at WSU, they'll start to get off the ground floor too.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SPRP15DRSG.DTL

I hope nobody covers football out of endowment funds. That would indeed be scandalous. Especially when there's no school out there that would do it to defay tuition, cut into the corpus at least.

But how will Stanford cover this shortfall? Borrow the money?

[TripletDaddy]

Stanford is a perennial Sears Cup contender. Its athletic program overall is one of the greatest in the entire country. If you add in USC and UCLA, no other conference comes close to what the Pac accomplishes in athletics across the board.

Stanford football is down right now, but they have been up in this decade, as well as the previous decade.

Look at the MWC/WAC.....besides BYU and Utah, who else is there? Every conference has this phenomenon, not just the PAC.

[SeattleUte]

Stanford is a perennial Sears Cup contender. Its athletic program overall is one of the greatest in the entire country. If you add in USC and UCLA, no other conference comes close to what the Pac accomplishes in athletics across the board.

Stanford football is down right now, but they have been up in this decade, as well as the previous decade.

Look at the MWC/WAC.....besides BYU and Utah, who else is there? Every conference has this phenomenon, not just the PAC.

Agree. Also, there are few schools, maybe only about three nationwide, that can come close to matching Stanford's ability to raise funds for whatever. Stanford is a juggernaut.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Things go up and go down.
Some BYU fans thought BYU would be dominant forever and then they hit 2000-2005. Just the other day on a BYU/Utah message board I read someone from the Puget Sound area claiming that Utah would be dominant for the next 20 years, but history of sport suggests otherwise.
We are less than a decade removed from USC being 6-6, 5-6 and people turning down the job or even removing their name from consideration like just being associated with it would infect one with some hideous disease.

[The_Tick]

Stanford always puzzles me...

Their band and band directors? Dueche Bags.

Their ability to mobilize their donors? Awesome.

And I love Bill Walsh...any school that can get someone like him to come out of retirement and coach a few years says something. He truly had a love for that school.