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  • Originally posted by Omaha 680 View Post

    I am not sure. I don't buy the argument "no one wants to live in Lincoln". While a true statement (sorry, PBW), no one wants to live in Norman either but Oklahoma didn't fall off the map for nearly 20 years after Barry Switzer. I agree that the option under Osborne was the perfect system for Nebraska at the time. But they coupled that with devastating defenses, in particular during the 60-3 run of four championship games (with three titles) in five years in the 90s.

    Personally I have come to believe that success in modern major college football is simply a combination of resources and coaching (shocker I know!), in particular the head coach. If you have the best resources and a top tier coach, the talent (including assistant coaches) will flow to you no matter where you are located (even Lincoln) and the coaches will turn that talent into success. Nebraska does not lack for resources or fan support. This isn't just me being a homer; I would stack up their fan support, facilities, and general resources against almost anyone in the country. They have a top 10, perhaps top 5 history/tradition to lean on. So the only answer in my mind is coaching.

    Osborne was an all-time great. Yes he was a master of the option but history doesn't give him credit for how he tailored his offenses to match his talent. Everyone remembers the devastating option attacks of Tommie Frazier and Eric Crouch but those were different offenses than what Turner Gill ran in the early 80s for example. I think Solich was an adequate, but not great, heir to the throne. Firing him blew up the coaching tradition at Nebraska and sent us on a 15 year goose chase for the one who would return us to the promised land. Callahan was a disaster and the wrong fit from the start. Pelini was a decent coach, but certifiably insane. Riley was a nice guy but just hammering checks until retirement.

    I really believe(d?) in Frost. He showed at Oregon and UCF he knows what he is doing. He had the tradition to unite the fan base and donors. And to a certain degree things have improved. I think the talent level is way up and if they could stop being boneheads they could compete with most teams in the country and at least challenge for a Big Ten division title. But the errors week after week. Stupid, costly errors that when they happen year after year has to go straight to coaching. I didn't pay much attention to UCF to know if his teams were this undisciplined but it really is nuts. Special teams are a train wreck. When mounting a comeback late in the game Saturday we did a QB sneak on first and goal from the 6 because we didn't realize we got the first down on the last play. I still have hope he can turn it around but it is not looking good.

    I don't think Nebraska is doomed to their current pathetic state forever unless the fan support and resources dry up. Given the fortunate inclusion in the B1G and the fact that husker fandom is in most of our DNA, I don't see either happening. Everywhere Nick Saban and Urban Meyer go will win as long as they have decent resources because those guys are just that good. The problem with Nebraska now is obviously no known great will likely take on the headache, so now we have to luck into one of the next greats somehow. Frost was our best chance at that and that is why I am sad.

    Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
    I think the biggest problem Nebraska has is recruiting. When was the last time they were good? Early 90's? None of these kids see Nebraska as a winner, regardless of the history. They are bottom tier in the conferences that they have been in for at least 20 years. They had a nice run in 2016, but you have to go back to the 2000 season to see them in the top 10 consistently over an entire season.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
      OK guys, this is just one game! Sounds like they made a ton of mistakes, which is not uncommon for game 1. They could still end up having a fine season.
      This is what I have said for many games across the Frost era. Unfortunately they have never gotten much better for long stretches. I really want to be wrong.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by The_Tick View Post

        I think the biggest problem Nebraska has is recruiting. When was the last time they were good? Early 90's? None of these kids see Nebraska as a winner, regardless of the history. They are bottom tier in the conferences that they have been in for at least 20 years. They had a nice run in 2016, but you have to go back to the 2000 season to see them in the top 10 consistently over an entire season.
        They backed into the national championship game in 2001 after everyone else lost. Up until the debacle at Colorado they were a solid #2 team most of the year. But I would agree from 2002 on they have had a mixture of mostly average seasons, too many bad seasons, and a few good seasons.

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        • Originally posted by Omaha 680 View Post

          I am not sure. I don't buy the argument "no one wants to live in Lincoln". While a true statement (sorry, PBW), no one wants to live in Norman either but Oklahoma didn't fall off the map for nearly 20 years after Barry Switzer. I agree that the option under Osborne was the perfect system for Nebraska at the time. But they coupled that with devastating defenses, in particular during the 60-3 run of four championship games (with three titles) in five years in the 90

          Personally I have come to believe that success in modern major college football is simply a combination of resources and coaching (shocker I know!), in particular the head coach. If you have the best resources and a top tier coach, the talent (including assistant coaches) will flow to you no matter where you are located (even Lincoln) and the coaches will turn that talent into success. Nebraska does not lack for resources or fan support. This isn't just me being a homer; I would stack up their fan support, facilities, and general resources against almost anyone in the country. They have a top 10, perhaps top 5 history/tradition to lean on. So the only answer in my mind is coaching.

          Osborne was an all-time great. Yes he was a master of the option but history doesn't give him credit for how he tailored his offenses to match his talent. Everyone remembers the devastating option attacks of Tommie Frazier and Eric Crouch but those were different offenses than what Turner Gill ran in the early 80s for example. I think Solich was an adequate, but not great, heir to the throne. Firing him blew up the coaching tradition at Nebraska and sent us on a 15 year goose chase for the one who would return us to the promised land. Callahan was a disaster and the wrong fit from the start. Pelini was a decent coach, but certifiably insane. Riley was a nice guy but just hammering checks until retirement.

          I really believe(d?) in Frost. He showed at Oregon and UCF he knows what he is doing. He had the tradition to unite the fan base and donors. And to a certain degree things have improved. I think the talent level is way up and if they could stop being boneheads they could compete with most teams in the country and at least challenge for a Big Ten division title. But the errors week after week. Stupid, costly errors that when they happen year after year has to go straight to coaching. I didn't pay much attention to UCF to know if his teams were this undisciplined but it really is nuts. Special teams are a train wreck. When mounting a comeback late in the game Saturday we did a QB sneak on first and goal from the 6 because we didn't realize we got the first down on the last play. I still have hope he can turn it around but it is not looking good.

          I don't think Nebraska is doomed to their current pathetic state forever unless the fan support and resources dry up. Given the fortunate inclusion in the B1G and the fact that husker fandom is in most of our DNA, I don't see either happening. Everywhere Nick Saban and Urban Meyer go will win as long as they have decent resources because those guys are just that good. The problem with Nebraska now is obviously no known great will likely take on the headache, so now we have to luck into one of the next greats somehow. Frost was our best chance at that and that is why I am sad.

          Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
          I had a conversation with a co-worker back in the mid-1990s about why Texas could not win national championships with all of their built in advantages but yet Nebraska could. The salient point he made was, "Just wait until Tom Osborne retires". And he was right. Intelligent minds can disagree about Frank Solich being an adequate replacement - I've always been of the opinion he was not a good choice. But the succession after Solich was even worse until Scott Frost. I'm still a believer in him. But agree with Omaha that the dumb mistakes have to be cleaned up and it saddens me that they continue under Frost.

          As far a recruiting, Nebraska has always recruited heavily in states like Texas and California. Not being in the Big12 may hurt recruiting Texas somewhat but Nebraska recruited Texas successfully in the Big8 when they rarely played in Texas. What hurts recruiting the most is not being able to say to a recruit with a straight face, "Come to Nebraska and play for a National Championship". Success breeds success- the opposite is also true.

          What has happened at Nebraska, can and does happen almost everywhere else. It usually just doesn't last this long. Omaha might be forgetting coach John Blake at Oklahoma (it hasn't been a smooth 30+ years post Barry Switzer). Ohio St. Texas, USC, and even Alabama have had their share of struggles. Nebraska just has had more of them due to successive poor choices of HC.

          There is also merit in Lebowski's comment that this was just one game - an opener where dumb mistakes tend to occur. Nebraska lost to Illinois last season at home 23-41. They lost last Saturday on the road to Illinois 22-30. I'm sure the real motivation Moliere had in bumping this thread is to make note of Nebraska's improvement.
          “Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.”
          "All things are measured against Nebraska." falafel

          Comment


          • Originally posted by The_Tick View Post

            I think the biggest problem Nebraska has is recruiting. When was the last time they were good? Early 90's? None of these kids see Nebraska as a winner, regardless of the history. They are bottom tier in the conferences that they have been in for at least 20 years. They had a nice run in 2016, but you have to go back to the 2000 season to see them in the top 10 consistently over an entire season.
            They've had around the #20 recruiting class for the last few years. A top 20 class should be enough to win some games.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Paperback Writer View Post
              I had a conversation with a co-worker back in the mid-1990s about why Texas could not win national championships with all of their built in advantages but yet Nebraska could. The salient point he made was, "Just wait until Tom Osborne retires". And he was right. Intelligent minds can disagree about Frank Solich being an adequate replacement - I've always been of the opinion he was not a good choice. But the succession after Solich was even worse until Scott Frost. I'm still a believer in him. But agree with Omaha that the dumb mistakes have to be cleaned up and it saddens me that they continue under Frost.

              As far a recruiting, Nebraska has always recruited heavily in states like Texas and California. Not being in the Big12 may hurt recruiting Texas somewhat but Nebraska recruited Texas successfully in the Big8 when they rarely played in Texas. What hurts recruiting the most is not being able to say to a recruit with a straight face, "Come to Nebraska and play for a National Championship". Success breeds success- the opposite is also true.

              What has happened at Nebraska, can and does happen almost everywhere else. It usually just doesn't last this long. Omaha might be forgetting coach John Blake at Oklahoma (it hasn't been a smooth 30+ years post Barry Switzer). Ohio St. Texas, USC, and even Alabama have had their share of struggles. Nebraska just has had more of them due to successive poor choices of HC.

              There is also merit in Lebowski's comment that this was just one game - an opener where dumb mistakes tend to occur. Nebraska lost to Illinois last season at home 23-41. They lost last Saturday on the road to Illinois 22-30. I'm sure the real motivation Moliere had in bumping this thread is to make note of Nebraska's improvement.
              Oh I didn't forget Blake. But the Sooners were really down for what? 6 years before Bob Stoops brought them roaring back? Which back to my main point: if the resources and fan support are essentially equal it's all coaching.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SCcoug View Post

                They've had around the #20 recruiting class for the last few years. A top 20 class should be enough to win some games.
                Exactly. They have enough talent to compete in the Big Ten, certainly to win a division title. Frost gets enough recruits, that is well known. I just don't know why his team is such a train wreck compared to what he was able to do at UCF.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Omaha 680 View Post

                  Exactly. They have enough talent to compete in the Big Ten, certainly to win a division title. Frost gets enough recruits, that is well known. I just don't know why his team is such a train wreck compared to what he was able to do at UCF.
                  All I can think is it was only one good season. That's almost like hiring Gary Crowton after his first year at BYU.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post

                    All I can think is it was only one good season. That's almost like hiring Gary Crowton after his first year at BYU.
                    UCF was 0-12 the season before Frost arrived. Then in two seasons he went 6-7 and 13-0. That combined with his record and reputation at Oregon as OC and WR coach made him a hot HC candidate. He was definitely the best coaching prospect with a Nebraska background since Solich was fired so we really had no choice but to lock him down and see if he worked out. I am sad.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Omaha 680 View Post

                      UCF was 0-12 the season before Frost arrived. Then in two seasons he went 6-7 and 13-0. That combined with his record and reputation at Oregon as OC and WR coach made him a hot HC candidate. He was definitely the best coaching prospect with a Nebraska background since Solich was fired so we really had no choice but to lock him down and see if he worked out. I am sad.
                      Yeah, I don't disagree. Just saying that all that glitters is not gold. Gary Crowton may well have become a head coach in the NFL if he didn't go to BYU, but a larger body of work seemed to indicate that he wasn't that great of a head coach.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post

                        Yeah, I don't disagree. Just saying that all that glitters is not gold. Gary Crowton may well have become a head coach in the NFL if he didn't go to BYU, but a larger body of work seemed to indicate that he wasn't that great of a head coach.
                        There’s a part of me that wonders if there is an alternate universe where BYU hired it’s next top choice for HC in 2001, and he went down Crowton’s path while Crowton went down his. And we’d be wondering why on earth we didn’t hire future NFL hall-of-famer, super-bowl-winning Gary Crowton instead of that dunderheaded fool Andy Reid.
                        τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by All-American View Post

                          There’s a part of me that wonders if there is an alternate universe where BYU hired it’s next top choice for HC in 2001, and he went down Crowton’s path while Crowton went down his. And we’d be wondering why on earth we didn’t hire future NFL hall-of-famer, super-bowl-winning Gary Crowton instead of that dunderheaded fool Andy Reid.
                          In still another alternate universe, Tom Osborne does not promise Frank Solich Nebraska's HC position when he retires and Solich accepts the offer to become Minnesota's HC. When Osborne does retire, Nebraska hires a different former Husker player, Barry Alvarez, away from Wisconsin. Under Alvarez, Nebraska continues to be a national power.
                          “Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.”
                          "All things are measured against Nebraska." falafel

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Paperback Writer View Post
                            In still another alternate universe, Tom Osborne does not promise Frank Solich Nebraska's HC position when he retires and Solich accepts the offer to become Minnesota's HC. When Osborne does retire, Nebraska hires a different former Husker player, Barry Alvarez, away from Wisconsin. Under Alvarez, Nebraska continues to be a national power.
                            Freaking Kyle Whittingham!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post

                              Freaking Kyle Whittingham!
                              This isn't Cougarboard. I am pretty sure we are allowed to use the F word when talking about him.

                              Comment


                              • Here they go giving me hope in the Frost project again. Still some dumb mistakes but they look like a different team today particularly on defense.

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