If BYU had beaten Arizona in 2008, would Utah have been elected no. 1 in the AP Poll?

[TripletDaddy]

I don't necessarily buy the familiar team distinction. That's 3D's brain child.

Actually, it is Foyero's. To his credit, he later returned to the board and recanted after the U was pounded by TCU (a familiar foe) and had its heart ripped out by BYU (a familiar foe). Foyero's "Familiarity Doctrine" was disproved pretty quickly, which is why he humbly apologized and assumed appropriate levels of stewardship for his mistake.

[SeattleUte]

And Alabama didn't play there All-American tackle and didn't want to be in the Sug.

I don't necessarily buy the familiar team distinction. That's 3D's brain child.

[SCcoug]

Air Force was a familiar team.

And Alabama didn't play there All-American tackle and didn't want to be in the Sug.

[SeattleUte]

There is at least one more victory over a team the ended the season in the top 10:

85 Air Force, AP rank 8th

Another good win in retrospect ... I think relative to how good BYU was in 1997, the win of Arizona St may be almost as surprising as the Miami win in retrospect. That was not a particularly good BYU team and they beat ASU on the road and ASU ended up 14th in the AP poll.

Air Force was a familiar team.

[pelagius]

Ok, well then what you are saying is that BYU's win over eventual #3 Miami is better than Utah's win over Alabama...what the heck were they ranked at the end? 6 or something like that?

There is at least one more victory over a team the ended the season in the top 10:

85 Air Force, AP rank 8th

Another good win in retrospect ... I think relative to how good BYU was in 1997, the win of Arizona St may be almost as surprising as the Miami win in retrospect. That was not a particularly good BYU team and they beat ASU on the road and ASU ended up 14th in the AP poll.

[SeattleUte]

Ok, well then what you are saying is that BYU's win over eventual #3 Miami is better than Utah's win over Alabama...what the heck were they ranked at the end? 6 or something like that?

I agree with you on that point. Thank you for clarifying.

Was it in THE SUG?

[Moliere]

LOL!! BYU has one undefeated season in its history, on a lolipop schedule. BYU will never go to a BCS bowl. BYU is too psycho. We've seen the best Bronco can do, with an extraordinary inheritance. Has BYU ever beaten a team that finished in the top 10? I'm usre it hasn't. BYU has never played in a real bowl. You people are deluded. Bring a lawsuit, get an injunction!

This is the strangest post/argument I think I've ever seen.

[jay santos]

More Utes have voted "no" than "yes" in this thread. Speaks volumes.

Jay Santos is the only BYU fan to vote "yes". What a reaffirmation of Jay's analytical skills.

I hope you read my post at the beginning of this thread.

[jay santos]

BCS doesn't consider MOV's for good reason. They are, I think we can all agree, the most unreliable means to determining a team's strength. This is especially so since the teams play such readically disparate schedules. Who cares about the RUTS/moral issue. MOV is a stupid thing to consider, especically when teams have played completely different schedules.

Incorrect.

These are things that can be proven with math, so there's no point arguing them.

[Indy Coug]

More Utes have voted "no" than "yes" in this thread. Speaks volumes.

Jay Santos is the only BYU fan to vote "yes". What a reaffirmation of Jay's analytical skills.

[TripletDaddy]

How did this thread end up over 40 posts? I put the over under at 6.

It became really interesting when SeattleUte started lobbying for BYU's win over Miami to be considered more impressive than Utah's win over Alabama (as measured by final ranking of opponent).

SeattleUte was also being very complimentary of BYU's penchant for playing highly ranked opponents, while the U has never played a #1 ranked team ever.

Meanwhile, Foyero is probably bashing his head against the screen reading SeattleUte's posts in this thread.

[TripletDaddy]

I don't think what they're ranked when you beat them carries a lot of weight, unless it's in a late or post season game. It's especially worthless to beat a team no. 1 in a preseason poll. Where they finished ranked is more interesting and important, unless it's a situation like when TCU beat Clemson this year, i.e., Clemson was unranked and bad (it started the season 2-3 including the loss to TCU); of course, Clemson isn't ranked now.

Ok, well then what you are saying is that BYU's win over eventual #3 Miami is better than Utah's win over Alabama...what the heck were they ranked at the end? 6 or something like that?

I agree with you on that point. Thank you for clarifying.

[Indy Coug]

I just find your selective MOV/SOS conversion telling and amusingly counter productive. If TCU had Utah's 2008 outcome you'd be all over proclaiming TCU the de facto national champion based on the BCS computers, which really are the gold standard. I mean, how do they determine who will play in the "NC" game in the first place?

After that Michigan game in 1984 did it taste truly sweet or more like a Diet Coke?

I'm hanging my hat on national consensus and you're hanging your hat on emasculated computer algorithms. Even with the watered down computer polls Utah wasn't the consensus 2008 winner (see the Massey site listing the computer poll averages). So you have neither national consensus, nor poll consensus.

BYU 1 Utah 0

[SeattleUte]

Your counting sucks. Utah had 5 wins by 7 points or less.

P.S. 14 points is not a blowout win

I just find your selective MOV/SOS conversion telling and amusingly counter productive. If TCU had Utah's 2008 outcome you'd be all over proclaiming TCU the de facto national champion based on the BCS computers, which really are the gold standard. I mean, how do they determine who will play in the "NC" game in the first place?

After that Michigan game in 1984 did it taste truly sweet or more like a Diet Coke?

[Coach McGuirk]

How did this thread end up over 40 posts? I put the over under at 6.