Shaq is a nice guy

[JohnnyLingo]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...urn=nba,177780

Any stories of Kobe doing this for any of his teammates? I hope there are.

[MartyFunkhouser]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...urn=nba,177780

Any stories of Kobe doing this for any of his teammates? I hope there are.

Shaq has now left 4 teams on bad terms with his former team and managed to tank his last 2 teams on the way out the door. I don't think Shaq is a good teammate at all. I'm looking forward to him taking down Cleveland.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I just read the story and that was sure nice of Shaq to take his teammate shopping. The difference between Shaq and Kobe is that instead of going shopping with his teammates Kobe works his ass of to stay in shape and work on his game. I'll take a guy with Kobe's personality on my team any day over Shaq.

[JohnnyLingo]

and managed to tank his last 2 teams on the way out the door.

Can you elaborate?

[TripletDaddy]

Shaq has now left 4 teams on bad terms with his former team and managed to tank his last 2 teams on the way out the door. I don't think Shaq is a good teammate at all. I'm looking forward to him taking down Cleveland.

Me, too.

I think his reality show is a very solid first step in that direction. Nothing helps a team focus more than reality show cameras following them around everywhere.

Although Lebron is probably happy to have the media glare off his poor behavior right now. To the extent that the media's tapes have not been confiscated, I mean.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Can you elaborate?

He feuded in Phoenix with Nash and Stoudemire. He didn't make good on his promise to get in shape to allow them to continue to play an uptempo style. Nash wanted him gone and that is probably the main reason he was out of Phoenix. Phoenix went from a contender to out of the playoffs in the Shaq era.

In Miami things started out well with Shaq but it went downhill really quick. Lets also remember that he wasn't even playing the end of the games in the finals. The team started to struggle (with Shaq playing no small role in these struggles) and all the sudden he demands a trade. Shaq also feuded with Dwayne Wade.

[FN Phat]

He feuded in Phoenix with Nash and Stoudemire. He didn't make good on his promise to get in shape to allow them to continue to play an uptempo style. Nash wanted him gone and that is probably the main reason he was out of Phoenix. Phoenix went from a contender to out of the playoffs in the Shaq era.

In Miami things started out well with Shaq but it went downhill really quick. Lets also remember that he wasn't even playing the end of the games in the finals. The team started to struggle (with Shaq playing no small role in these struggles) and all the sudden he demands a trade. Shaq also feuded with Dwayne Wade.

The Shaq era had nothing to do with the Phoenix downfall, and everything to do with the end of the D'Antoni era.

Shaq in Miami started out well? He brought them a ring!

You must have drank that 32 oz. of Shaq Hateorade first thing this morning.

[MartyFunkhouser]

The Shaq era had nothing to do with the Phoenix downfall, and everything to do with the end of the D'Antoni era.

Shaq in Miami started out well? He brought them a ring!

You must have drank that 32 oz. of Shaq Hateorade first thing this morning.

Point is they both ended very bad and he was a big part of it going downhill. Shaq fractured the locker room in Phoenix and that cause a lot of their problems. Also, Shaq was a big part of why D'Antoni was gone in Phoenix. They had his out of shape ass on the floor and needed someone who would slow the game down. Nash hated him and Stoudemire hated him.

I acknowledged that things started out well in Miami, but they quickly went downhill. He got in shape for one season because he wanted a big contract and was pissed at Kobe. Of course, once he got his contract he became a lazy ass again and financially killed the franchise.

[JohnnyLingo]

He feuded in Phoenix with Nash and Stoudemire. He didn't make good on his promise to get in shape to allow them to continue to play an uptempo style. Nash wanted him gone and that is probably the main reason he was out of Phoenix. Phoenix went from a contender to out of the playoffs in the Shaq era.

I found this after Googling:

“I think Nash told him (Kerr) that if O’Neal was there, he wouldn’t be around much longer,” said the NBA source who requested his name not be used. “That pretty much sealed it.”

Nash, the article goes on to say, was irritated by the way Shaq slowed down Phoenix’s previously high-flying offense.

The criticism that Shaq didn't get back into shape is valid, though I believe even if Shaq was in great shape going into Phoenix he'd still slow them down. It's just the nature of who he is... you're not doing SSOL with him on the floor, at any age, in any shape. It was a poor decision by Kerr. To blame Shaq is misplacing the blame, IMO.

I couldn't really find any evidence of a "feud" between him and Nash/Stoudamire. Maybe you can link something.

In Miami things started out well with Shaq

Translation: ring.

but it went downhill really quick. Lets also remember that he wasn't even playing the end of the games in the finals. The team started to struggle (with Shaq playing no small role in these struggles) and all the sudden he demands a trade. Shaq also feuded with Dwayne Wade.

I think you let emotion get the better of you, funk. You develop these intense dislikes for certain famous individuals and that colors everything you hear from then on. Shaq's first season in Miami he put up 23 and 10 on 60% shooting. Season after that, 20 and 9 on 60% shooting. Next: 17 and 7 on 60% shooting. So yes, there is a decline, but it's not exactly moving "downhill really quick."

Let's keep in mind that his first season in Miami was his 13th as a pro, and he played three years at Louisiana State. I think a lot of the statistical dropoff we start seeing around his Miami days is due to just getting older and giving Wade a big role in the offense.

Re: the feud with Wade, I couldn't find much about it while they were teammates... though there is some stuff from after Shaq left the Heat. What I've heard from Shaq on Wade has been 99% complimentary. I don't know that there is a feud.

Bottom line, I think Shaq is immature who wants to win, and that is where the team-hopping comes in. Is it any different from Kobe railing against the Lakers for not getting him pieces for a championship and threatening to leave LA?

At his core, I believe Shaq is a nice guy. I believe his teammates generally like him. You can believe he is the devil incarnate if you want.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I don't think Shaq is the devil incarnate, but the plain fact is he has left 4 teams on bad terms. You can argue all you want about whether or not he was a good teammate or if he hurt the teams going out the door, but it is undisputed that he left every team he has played for on bad terms.

I don't like Shaq. I haven't liked him his whole career. I don't like players who coast on their ability and are lazy. Shaq is a lazy ass and always has been. Those decline in numbers in Miami were as much due to being out of shape as his age. Interesting that you failed to include the games played: 73, 59, and 40. He got increasingly out of shape during his time in Miami.

[JohnnyLingo]

Those decline in numbers in Miami were as much due to being out of shape as his age. Interesting that you failed to include the games played: 73, 59, and 40. He got increasingly out of shape during his time in Miami.

Let's compare Shaq to other great centers.

Wilt Chamberlain:

13th season (71-72): 15 ppg, 20 rebounds per game.
14th season: 13 ppg, 18 rpg
15 season: Retired.

Bill Russel:

13th season (1968-1969): 12 ppg, 18 rpg
14th season: Retired.

Patrick Ewing:

13th season (97-98): 20 ppg, 10 rpg
14th season: 17 and 9
15th season: 15 and 9
16th season: 9 and 7
17th season: 6 and 4

David Robinson:

12th season (00-01): 14 and 8
13th season: 12 and 8
14th season: 8 and 8
15th season: Retired.

Tim Duncan is in his 13th year. We'll see how he does over the next four or five seasons.

My point is, centers start to break down around their 13th season. It's normal. For you to bag on Shaq for doing the same thing is absurd. And for NBA GM's to expect that Shaq will help them compete for a title in his 15th, 15th, 16th seasons is also absurd.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Let's compare Shaq to other great centers.

Wilt Chamberlain:

13th season (71-72): 15 ppg, 20 rebounds per game.
14th season: 13 ppg, 18 rpg
15 season: Retired.

Bill Russel:

13th season (1968-1969): 12 ppg, 18 rpg
14th season: Retired.

Patrick Ewing:

13th season (97-98): 20 ppg, 10 rpg
14th season: 17 and 9
15th season: 15 and 9
16th season: 9 and 7
17th season: 6 and 4

David Robinson:

12th season (00-01): 14 and 8
13th season: 12 and 8
14th season: 8 and 8
15th season: Retired.

Tim Duncan is in his 13th year. We'll see how he does over the next four or five seasons.

My point is, centers start to break down around their 13th season. It's normal. For you to bag on Shaq for doing the same thing is absurd. And for NBA GM's to expect that Shaq will help them compete for a title in his 15th, 15th, 16th seasons is also absurd.

Bill Russell, Patrick Ewing, Wilt Chamberlain, and David Robinson were all older than Shaq when they entered the league.

Are you really trying to deny that Shaq is a lazy ass who doesn't stay in shape?

[DrumNFeather]

Bill Russell, Patrick Ewing, Wilt Chamberlain, and David Robinson were all older than Shaq when they entered the league.

Are you really trying to deny that Shaq is a lazy ass who doesn't stay in shape?

Also, isn't Tim Duncan more of a PF then a Center?

[TripletDaddy]

Where is Kareem on that list? He went to the Finals in his final 3 seasons, winning twice, losing once (and the loss was a largely a result of Magic and Scott being injured. the lakers had swept through the playoffs and then riley ran the team out of the gym and both magic and scott could not play the next week).

[JohnnyLingo]

Bill Russell, Patrick Ewing, Wilt Chamberlain, and David Robinson were all older than Shaq when they entered the league.

How much older? And aren't 13 NBA seasons 13 NBA seasons, regardless of how old someone is? That wears on you.

Are you really trying to deny that Shaq is a lazy ass who doesn't stay in shape?

No. We agree that Shaq's lack of statistical excellence these last couple of seasons is due to his laziness and his getting older. We just disagree on which factor is more to blame. I say it's more due to his age.

Also, isn't Tim Duncan more of a PF then a Center?

He's a hybrid. Depends on who you ask.