Brock Zylstra

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

No, Rose is not a major coach and BYU is not a major program. I love Dave and think he could be a major coach if he went to a big time program but he has decided to stay in Provo. BYU's recruiting pool is limited. We are able to get high mid-major and low major prospects regularly. Occasionally, we get major prospects if they are LDS and interested. Garner Meads, KC and D. Harrison are examples of that. When we get those guys, they can usually play a number of positions on our team because we are not a major program. We usually put them where a need is rather than at their best position. KC's best position is wing and that is where he was put at the major camps. He plays too high to guard PGs at the majors and to handle the ball against PGs at the majors. Drury played him at every position at PHS (1-5) and he was effective at all because he is a high level player. That makes his skill set and his size all point to an ideal 3. Further, my understanding is that those major programs that offered him did so as a wing. BYU offered to let him try his hand at PG, which he wanted to do, and was able to get him partly because of that promise.

Makes me think of taking a solid cornerback in football who has adequate coverage skills and putting him at safety. He might have speed and instincts that can make him a solid CB, but his lack of other physical tools limit his overall effectiveness at that position, whereas his ability to do well in pass coverage coupled with other physical tools could make him an elite safety.

That is how I view KC. I think he can likely log minutes at PG at BYU and do well. The system is friendly to his skill set, and he's not going to have to guard Kyrie Irving and Kalin Lucas. But stick his ball handling, passing, and instincts on the wing and he becomes more dangerous and helps create favorable mismatches.

If Rose continues to go zone with certain line-ups, which he might do to protect Davies from fouls, KC could better utilize his solid defensive instincts. Giving Jimmer a rest and having KC, Emery, Abouo, Collinsworth, and Davies run zone on defense would really shrink the court on defense.

[jay santos]

Makes me think of taking a solid cornerback in football who has adequate coverage skills and putting him at safety. He might have speed and instincts that can make him a solid CB, but his lack of other physical tools limit his overall effectiveness at that position, whereas his ability to do well in pass coverage coupled with other physical tools could make him an elite safety.

That is how I view KC. I think he can likely log minutes at PG at BYU and do well. The system is friendly to his skill set, and he's not going to have to guard Kyrie Irving and Kalin Lucas. But stick his ball handling, passing, and instincts on the wing and he becomes more dangerous and helps create favorable mismatches.

If Rose continues to go zone with certain line-ups, which he might do to protect Davies from fouls, KC could better utilize his solid defensive instincts. Giving Jimmer a rest and having KC, Emery, Abouo, Collinsworth, and Davies run zone on defense would really shrink the court on defense.

I chuckle at the thought of KC, CC, and Davies on the court together playing zone, because that is what Drury is known so much for and those three guys know how to play a zone as good as the guys that play for Boeheim (k, slight exaggeration). Rose would be smart to play zone if/when he's forced to use KC as the point.

[KillerDog]

If Rose continues to go zone with certain line-ups, which he might do to protect Davies from fouls, KC could better utilize his solid defensive instincts. Giving Jimmer a rest and having KC, Emery, Abouo, Collinsworth, and Davies run zone on defense would really shrink the court on defense.

I really like the idea of Jimmer, Jax, the Collinsworth brothers and Davies in a zone. Frankly, we have a lot of good zone defenders this year. Hartsock is best in a zone and Abuou is a good defender generally. I don't know how Rogers works but I would love to see us use more zone than we have in the past. It is funny but just four or five years ago I would scream at the TV everytime we went zone because our weakside defender was standing and watching or (even worse) completely clueless. This current team could really play some zone and rebound out of it with our roster.

[jay santos]

I really like the idea of Jimmer, Jax, the Collinsworth brothers and Davies in a zone. Frankly, we have a lot of good zone defenders this year. Hartsock is best in a zone and Abuou is a good defender generally. I don't know how Rogers works but I would love to see us use more zone than we have in the past. It is funny but just four or five years ago I would scream at the TV everytime we went zone because our weakside defender was standing and watching or (even worse) completely clueless. This current team could really play some zone and rebound out of it with our roster.

KDog I agree with most you say and it's fun to banter. I disagree again on this point in bold. IMHO: Hartsock's awful in a zone. He has no ability to close out on the three or keep a wing in front of him from the perimeter. He was always the weak spot of the zone whenever we went to it last year.

[KillerDog]

KDog I agree with most you say and it's fun to banter. I disagree again on this point in bold. IMHO: Hartsock's awful in a zone. He has no ability to close out on the three or keep a wing in front of him from the perimeter. He was always the weak spot of the zone whenever we went to it last year.

If the comment was from one of the idiots I would discount it out of hand but from you ... I'm going to look at him again in the zone. I don't take written notes on players but I try to keep good mental notes and for some reason I had it in my mind that Hartsock was our best combination defender last year as a big man and that he excelled in the zone because of his length and energy. I even have a mental note that he played 5 in the zone better than Miles or Davies and was very effective at closing out on the baseline 3 when the opponent overloaded. That said, there are a handful of posters who have proven to know the game and you are one so I will look again and see if I change my mind.

[Jacob]

KDogg... IOW, there is no support for your claim that every major coach who recruited him recruited him as a wing?

I honestly will have to wait to see him play to see how he is as a PG, but I think it's strange that you guys are basing this off of not seeing him play, or perhaps seeing him in a few practices. PG is not as much about speed and how high one dribbles, its more of a mindset and a skill, IMO. A guy who averages about 9 assists per game in high school ought to be given the first chance to play pg because that's the kid that will best be able to distribute the ball in the offence. If you stick a really quick, but short 6 foot kid on him on D, I'll feel confident that we'd be able to exploit that mismatch better than they would.

[Flystripper]

A guy who averages about 9 assists per game in high school ought to be given the first chance to play pg because that's the kid that will best be able to distribute the ball in the offence.

9 assists is very unselfish but I have seen players get those kind of numbers from the high post and on the wing on some high school teams. It really depends on the offensive system the kid was running in high school (of which I am clueless). However I completely reject the notion that just because a kid has high assist numbers in high school and he can handle the ball against high school defenders that he projects well as a D1 point guard. I am in wait and see mode with KC but I am skeptical with him at the point.

[Jacob]

9 assists is very unselfish but I have seen players get those kind of numbers from the high post and on the wing on some high school teams. It really depends on the offensive system the kid was running in high school (of which I am clueless). However I completely reject the notion that just because a kid has high assist numbers in high school and he can handle the ball against high school defenders that he projects well as a D1 point guard. I am in wait and see mode with KC but I am skeptical with him at the point.

But why are you skeptical? The coaches appear to think he's our best option at backup PG. You haven't seen him play. Why are you so skeptical. Because he has grown several inches over the past few years? He's our Magic...time to get on board!

Also, I'd be interested to see a link to these HS post players averaging 9 assists per game. FYI, Provo plays a slow offense and doesn't put up high scores.

[Flystripper]

But why are you skeptical? The coaches appear to think he's our best option at backup PG. You haven't seen him play. Why are you so skeptical. Because he has grown several inches over the past few years? He's our Magic...time to get on board!

Also, I'd be interested to see a link to these HS post players averaging 9 assists per game. FYI, Provo plays a slow offense and doesn't put up high scores.

Magic is a once in a multi-generation type player. I am skeptical because BYU is the only school that would allow him to give the point a shot. It might work out, but somtimes conventional wisdom is just that....wisdom. That is why I am skeptical.

[Jacob]

Magic is a once in a multi-generation type player. I am skeptical because BYU is the only school that would allow him to give the point a shot. It might work out, but somtimes conventional wisdom is just that....wisdom. That is why I am skeptical.

Why do you think that?

Also, Kyle is almost 2 generations from Magic...so we're about due!

I'll say it again. I haven't seen him play, so like you, I'll have to wait and see. But I don't understand why other people who also haven't really seen him play are insisting that he's not a PG. I think it's bias against tall people . Well, if I have to play one more city league game where the shorter guy insists on being the point guard, even though he has no idea how to play point...I'm going to scream!

[jay santos]

Why do you think that?

Also, Kyle is almost 2 generations from Magic...so we're about due!

I'll say it again. I haven't seen him play, so like you, I'll have to wait and see. But I don't understand why other people who also haven't really seen him play are insisting that he's not a PG. I think it's bias against tall people . Well, if I have to play one more city league game where the shorter guy insists on being the point guard, even though he has no idea how to play point...I'm going to scream!

In city league you probably don't have a cat quick 5'10 black guy ball hawking you once you cross the mid court line. Jimmer has about 20 times the ball handling skill that we've ever had in a white LDS point guard and even he has to work hard sometimes to keep his dribble going. I'll look stupid if KC is the second coming of Jalen Rose (Magic's just hoping for WAY too much), so maybe I should stop belaboring this point. Let's wait and see.

[Jacob]

In city league you probably don't have a cat quick 5'10 black guy ball hawking you once you cross the mid court line. Jimmer has about 20 times the ball handling skill that we've ever had in a white LDS point guard and even he has to work hard sometimes to keep his dribble going. I'll look stupid if KC is the second coming of Jalen Rose (Magic's just hoping for WAY too much), so maybe I should stop belaboring this point. Let's wait and see.

Yes lets. But good luck to that 5'10" ball hawking point guard blocking a jump stop or stopping him in the post.

[Flystripper]

Why do you think that?

Also, Kyle is almost 2 generations from Magic...so we're about due!

I'll say it again. I haven't seen him play, so like you, I'll have to wait and see. But I don't understand why other people who also haven't really seen him play are insisting that he's not a PG. I think it's bias against tall people . Well, if I have to play one more city league game where the shorter guy insists on being the point guard, even though he has no idea how to play point...I'm going to scream!

Hey I was a taller PG in HS as well. I am not 6'6" but I was 6'2" as and as a freshman I was the second tallest guy on the team. The next three years on varsity I played point with a guy the same height as me at the 3 and I was taller than the guy at the 2. I hear what you are saying.

I understand that a person's height is not the sole determining factor of who should be playing point. The issue is not whether KC can fill in some minutes at the point. The question is, is that where he is best suited to play? We will have to wait and see. As a 6'6" fairly athletic player with a marginal outside shot coupled with ability to rebound out of his zone I would think that the 3 would be calling his name even if he didn't have to guard the other team's point.

[KillerDog]

KDogg... IOW, there is no support for your claim that every major coach who recruited him recruited him as a wing?

I honestly will have to wait to see him play to see how he is as a PG, but I think it's strange that you guys are basing this off of not seeing him play, or perhaps seeing him in a few practices. PG is not as much about speed and how high one dribbles, its more of a mindset and a skill, IMO. A guy who averages about 9 assists per game in high school ought to be given the first chance to play pg because that's the kid that will best be able to distribute the ball in the offence. If you stick a really quick, but short 6 foot kid on him on D, I'll feel confident that we'd be able to exploit that mismatch better than they would.

I'm sorry, didn't you read the links? He was being rated and recruited as a sg or sf not a pg. His weaknesses listed by the analysts and observable in his videos will hamper his pg development. Also, I recall an article during his recruitment where he indicated he was interested in BYU partly because he would be able to play pg at BYU.

I've seen him play 3 games on TV. His ideal position is clearly the wing because he plays too high for a pg and doesn't have sufficient quickness to be a true pg at the next level. He has enough quickness and length to be serviceable at the pg spot but he could be amazing at the wing.

[KillerDog]

But why are you skeptical? The coaches appear to think he's our best option at backup PG. You haven't seen him play. Why are you so skeptical. Because he has grown several inches over the past few years? He's our Magic...time to get on board!

Also, I'd be interested to see a link to these HS post players averaging 9 assists per game. FYI, Provo plays a slow offense and doesn't put up high scores.

To say he is our best option at pg at BYU is not to say playing pg would be best for his development or the place where he can make the most impact. We are not a major program. We have to fit kids in where we have needs. KC could play 1-4 for us. We don't really need a 4 or a backup at 4. We have more depth at 2 and 3 than we do at the 4. We are thinnest at pg with a walk on and a converted 2.

BTW, Provo plays a slow offense but even back in 2008 KC was getting double and triple teamed within the offense. He has good vision and can handle in traffic but that doesn't mean his ideal position is a pg.