Why cut taxes?

[Uncle Ted]

The other side of that coin is that a lot of Republicans look down on the poor or anyone who's used public assistance as lazy, a drain on society, and deserving of their circumstances. There's stereotypes galore on the issue of income.

Sen. Rubio tells a secret: After giving a tax cut to the rich, GOP will cut Social Security and Medicare

Merry Christmas, Frank!

[frank ryan]

Precisely. That's why I hate it. We only get out of this mess by increasing our productivity, and disincentive to do so will only get us into bigger fiscal troubles.

BTW, I wasn't trying to imply that you alone earn that much and/or that you don't deserve it. On the contrary, I think it's good for both your household and the economy. Unfortunately, the populist side of America looks at any household living on more than $120k as rich elite who need to pay more. You can thank the Democrats for that, but a lot of trailer park Republicans buy into it, too.

The other side of that coin is that a lot of Republicans look down on the poor or anyone who's used public assistance as lazy, a drain on society, and deserving of their circumstances. There's stereotypes galore on the issue of income.

[cowboy]

It's not just me. It's also my wife. Double earners get slammed, which makes no sense either. Taxes in our case are a disincentive for both of us to contribute our productivity to the economy.

Precisely. That's why I hate it. We only get out of this mess by increasing our productivity, and disincentive to do so will only get us into bigger fiscal troubles.

BTW, I wasn't trying to imply that you alone earn that much and/or that you don't deserve it. On the contrary, I think it's good for both your household and the economy. Unfortunately, the populist side of America looks at any household living on more than $120k as rich elite who need to pay more. You can thank the Democrats for that, but a lot of trailer park Republicans buy into it, too.

[BlueK]

Cute how Trump can go in front of some of his cult following at a rally and lie that the tax bill is really bad for him. What a scumbag.

[BlueK]

If you are paying that much, you are pulling down around $200k and in the top 5-10 percent of all earners. Your total rate was likely around 10% before deductions, which is where most flat-tax people want to be. You are also in the demographic that is getting hosed by the majority of the country. You and the people who earn more than you pay around 90% of the total income tax receipts, while the bottom 50th percentile pays 2.8%. This is why I think more people should pay - not an extravagant amount, but something that makes them stop and think when we talk about creating an entitlement or starting a war.

You are the "rich" in most people's minds, though you likely worked very hard to get to this point in your career. We want a system that gives people incentive to be you, not a reason to be jealous of you and make you pay "your fair share."

It's not just me. It's also my wife. Double earners get slammed, which makes no sense either. Taxes in our case are a disincentive for both of us to continue to contribute our productivity to the economy. The entire system should be replaced by one in which people are taxed for what they consume in resources instead of what they produce.

[cowboy]

From what I've been reading, I'm pretty much resigned to the idea that mine are going up even though my household of four already pays more than $20,000 a year in federal taxes. That doesn't exactly sound to me like nearly zero.

If you are paying that much, you are pulling down around $200k and in the top 5-10 percent of all earners. Your total rate was likely around 10% before deductions, which is where most flat-tax people want to be. You are also in the demographic that is getting hosed by the majority of the country. You and the people who earn more than you pay around 90% of the total income tax receipts, while the bottom 50th percentile pays 2.8%. This is why I think more people should pay - not an extravagant amount, but something that makes them stop and think when we talk about creating an entitlement or starting a war.

You are the "rich" in most people's minds, though you likely worked very hard to get to this point in your career. We want a system that gives people incentive to be you, not a reason to be jealous of you and make you pay "your fair share."

[Moliere]

It's also frustrating that the current Congress seems to think working with the other side is evil, and that everything should be passed ONLY with same-party votes or it's of the devil.

Definitely frustrating.

At some point on this board (a number of years ago) I posted my tax plan. I need to go back and find it and see if I still agree with myself. IIRC, my tax plan was not only fair but it would also cure cancer.


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[BlueK]

The current tax structure is absurd. Any proposed tax structure would probably be absurd. The only thing that could make it less absurd is if the two parties could work together to pass something permanent so the didn’t have to use reconciliation. But that won’t ever happen so we are stuck in this never ending cycle of absurd tax “reform”


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It's also frustrating that the current Congress seems to think working with the other side is evil, and that everything should be passed ONLY with same-party votes or it's of the devil.

[Moliere]

Even if someone's taxes have to be raised, the structure of this bill is absurd.

The current tax structure is absurd. Any proposed tax structure would probably be absurd. The only thing that could make it less absurd is if the two parties could work together to pass something permanent so the didn’t have to use reconciliation. But that won’t ever happen so we are stuck in this never ending cycle of absurd tax “reform”


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[BlueK]

So who’s taxes should be raised?


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Even if someone's taxes have to be raised, the structure of this bill is absurd.

[BlueK]

Two things: First, tax rates have very little correlation to tax reciepts, and the idea that this will affect the deficit is at least questionable, and probably false. The CBO has an incredibly screwed up scoring system that is skewed toward Keynsian policies, and this bill is a good example. I think it's an awful bill, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it will affect the deficit in the long run.

Second: Since nearly half of all workers pay nearly zero in income taxes, it is probably a good thing that more people are paying taxes and have some skin in the game. As an offset, however, tax law needs to be structured to provide incentive for people to invest, which this law doesn't do. Unfortunately, this law does the opposite, and gives incentive for corporations to pay less in dividends, and for investors to keep money in mediocre investments over higher earning investments. I really don't like the bill as I understand it.

From what I've been reading, I'm pretty much resigned to the idea that mine are going up even though my household of four already pays more than $20,000 a year in federal taxes. That doesn't exactly sound to me like nearly zero.

[cowboy]

It's extremely frustrating that a tax bill that would explode the deficit beyond its already obscene level would still make this many more middle class Americans pay thousands of dollars more in taxes. This is the most idiotic thing the GOP has ever tried to do on taxes. Even if only 40% of middle America has to pay more, that's more than enough angry voters to vote people out at the ballot box. I don't get it.

Two things: First, tax rates have very little correlation to tax reciepts, and the idea that this will affect the deficit is at least questionable, and probably false. The CBO has an incredibly screwed up scoring system that is skewed toward Keynsian policies, and this bill is a good example. I think it's an awful bill, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it will affect the deficit in the long run.

Second: Since nearly half of all workers pay nearly zero in income taxes, it is probably a good thing that more people are paying taxes and have some skin in the game. As an offset, however, tax law needs to be structured to provide incentive for people to invest, which this law doesn't do. Unfortunately, this law does the opposite, and gives incentive for corporations to pay less in dividends, and for investors to keep money in mediocre investments over higher earning investments. I really don't like the bill as I understand it.

[Moliere]

I didn't say raise the corporate rate. But I don't want my taxes which are already ridiculously high to go up even more.

So who’s taxes should be raised?


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[Uncle Ted]

I didn't say raise the corporate rate. But I don't want my taxes which are already ridiculously high to go up even more.

What? You think all those wars are going to pay for themselves? I don't want my taxes raised either that is why we need to raise the corporate tax rate to 75%+. Of course, those corporate talking heads are saying that lowering the corporate rate is going to magically generate tax revenue out of thin air.

[BlueK]

Yeah, the government should be raising the corporate tax rate to 75%+ to lower the deficit instead! All those stink'n corporations have all the money. They need to pay up!

Consider yourselves warned you evil corporations!

I didn't say raise the corporate rate. But I don't want my taxes which are already ridiculously high to go up even more.