President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[tooblue]

The first sentence is probably accurate of Tulsi, but also every other politician in the world. But now that I think about it I'm not sure. If she had kept herself in check she probably would have advanced pretty far in the DNC. She crossed Hillary in 2016 and that pretty much ended her career as a Democrat.

Where are you seeing her being a Putin apologist? I've seen something about her tweeting about biolabs, which I think was nonsense. She shouldn't have done that. I also don't think Romney should have said it was treasonous (he's still my hero). It's not treasonous to question the war in Ukraine. Or really any war for that matter. For years I didn't feel that way and I think I was wrong. The Bush 'you're with us or you're against us' led to some pretty disastrous outcomes. I'm growing to appreciate people who bring a different perspective, including you.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/01/polit...sia/index.html

"Just as Russia was invading Ukraine last week, Gabbard sent out this decidedly pro-Russia tweet: “This war and suffering could have easily been avoided if Biden Admin/NATO had simply acknowledged Russia’s legitimate security concerns regarding Ukraine’s becoming a member of NATO, which would mean US/NATO forces right on Russia’s border.”

https://www.foxnews.com/media/russia...hannity-debate

"Gabbard, a 2020 presidential candidate and U.S. military reservist, said the Ukrainians cannot win their unwitting war against the Kremlin and its autocrat Vladimir Putin, while Hannity maintained that the West has a responsibility – though not through direct troop involvement – to supply victimized nations with assistance."

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/hi/haw...-russia-claims

"The flap appears to have started early Sunday when Gabbard posted to her verified Twitter account a video in which she claimed there are 25 to 30 U.S.-funded biolabs in Ukraine that conduct research on deadly pathogens.

“Like COVID, these pathogens know no borders so if they are inadvertently or purposely breached or compromised, they will quickly spread all throughout Europe, the United States, and the rest of the world causing untold suffering and death,” Gabbard says in the video."


"As Gabbard’s video spread — by Monday afternoon, it had been retweeted more than 14,000 times — Romney went on Twitter to condemn the remarks.

“Tulsi Gabbard is parroting false Russian propaganda,” he tweeted. “Her treasonous lies may well cost lives.”

[tooblue]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/01/polit...sia/index.html

"Just as Russia was invading Ukraine last week, Gabbard sent out this decidedly pro-Russia tweet: “This war and suffering could have easily been avoided if Biden Admin/NATO had simply acknowledged Russia’s legitimate security concerns regarding Ukraine’s becoming a member of NATO, which would mean US/NATO forces right on Russia’s border.”

https://www.foxnews.com/media/russia...hannity-debate

"Gabbard, a 2020 presidential candidate and U.S. military reservist, said the Ukrainians cannot win their unwitting war against the Kremlin and its autocrat Vladimir Putin, while Hannity maintained that the West has a responsibility – though not through direct troop involvement – to supply victimized nations with assistance."

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/hi/haw...-russia-claims

"The flap appears to have started early Sunday when Gabbard posted to her verified Twitter account a video in which she claimed there are 25 to 30 U.S.-funded biolabs in Ukraine that conduct research on deadly pathogens.

“Like COVID, these pathogens know no borders so if they are inadvertently or purposely breached or compromised, they will quickly spread all throughout Europe, the United States, and the rest of the world causing untold suffering and death,” Gabbard says in the video."


"As Gabbard’s video spread — by Monday afternoon, it had been retweeted more than 14,000 times — Romney went on Twitter to condemn the remarks.

“Tulsi Gabbard is parroting false Russian propaganda,” he tweeted. “Her treasonous lies may well cost lives.”

Russia invaded Ukraine. Not the other way around. Ukraine sought NATO alliance because of the threat and original Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014

Ukraine is defending itself against an invading army, not fighting an unwitting war.

There were no secret bio labs in Ukraine.

[frank ryan]

The first sentence is probably accurate of Tulsi, but also every other politician in the world. But now that I think about it I'm not sure. If she had kept herself in check she probably would have advanced pretty far in the DNC. She crossed Hillary in 2016 and that pretty much ended her career as a Democrat.

Where are you seeing her being a Putin apologist? I've seen something about her tweeting about biolabs, which I think was nonsense. She shouldn't have done that. I also don't think Romney should have said it was treasonous (he's still my hero). It's not treasonous to question the war in Ukraine. Or really any war for that matter. For years I didn't feel that way and I think I was wrong. The Bush 'you're with us or you're against us' led to some pretty disastrous outcomes. I'm growing to appreciate people who bring a different perspective, including you.

I'll google later, but Gabbard parroted Russia propaganda that lacked credibility when it came to Ukraine and she has done it often. She talked about the US creating secret bioweapons labs in Ukraine. She is actively lobbying against supporting Ukraine all while mysteriously failing to condemn Russia or Putin.

[myboynoah]

Oooooooooooo, UT. Here you go.

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[PaloAltoCougar]

Oooooooooooo, UT. Here you go.

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One can go to the website and behold a selfless servant of the people.

One of the biggest fears Trump has is being laughed at, and he thinks he scores major political points by claiming other nations are laughing at us (they're laughing, but more at him than us, certainly). How can anyone watch that video or look at his website and not laugh?

[myboynoah]

One can go to the website and behold a selfless servant of the people.

One of the biggest fears Trump has is being laughed at, and he thinks he scores major political points by claiming other nations are laughing at us (they're laughing, but more at him than us, certainly). How can anyone watch that video or look at his website and not laugh?

Do people really believe this is going to pay off some day? Like all those folks that invested in Truth Social? He's going to sell them out on that, take his $ billion and leave them high and dry.

[myboynoah]

Honoring those who served and died. Probably walked right on their graves.

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[frank ryan]

YO, Tulsi's Anti-Ukraine rhetoric was not noble dovish talk, it is and was parroted, unfounded Moscow conspiracy stuff. Mitt may have been too harsh, but I get his sentiment. She consistently has trended this way. She isn't unfairly maligned, in fact her leaving office and almost immediately taking a high-paying gig at Fox News further sheds light on her insincerity. She made plenty of shameless appearances on RT, an organization forced to registered as a foreign agent. Gabbard lended credibility to a propaganda arm of an enemy.


The Ukraine conflict being framed as American warmongering is not only inaccurate, it's dangerous. If Putin gets what he wants he isn't going to stop. He tested Obama, but that wasn't the first. He invaded Georgia in 08, and there weren't any meaningful consequences. Neither Bush nor Obama was aligned with Putin, but both were naive. Trump was said he would encourage Moscow bullying NATO members who don't "pay their fair share."



There are plenty of thought leaders who are favorable to our adversaries. She isn't the only who has been in uniform. Michael Flynn is another and he has been treasonous, he encouraged Trump to utilize the military to overthrow the vote. He has nurtured the QAnon movement. He should not have been pardoned for being a foreign agent. Jack Posobiec, was a form Navy intel officer, author of the pizzagate theory and genuine fascist. He is also unfortunately influential, close to JD Vance and aligned with Moscow.

[YOhio]

Frank and tooblue- Appreciate the thoughtful responses. Her viewpoints definitely run counter to the current majority viewpoint in America, but I'm still not seeing her as a Putin shill. For instance, in tooblue's first link he referenced this tweet that was pro-Russian:

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She's offering an opinion about how US foreign policy contributed to potential violence abroad. That happens all the time and, on this particular issue, her tweet echoes the sentiments of Madelyn Albright when she was Secretary of State and former Bush/Obama SecDef Robert Gates. I thinks she's probably wrong that NATO expansion was the singular catalyst for the Russian invasion, but it's equally naive to think it didn't play some role.

And it's ridiculous that saying as much makes one a Russian shill just because Putin may happen to agree with the statement. It's an approach that's intellectually lazy and is intended to villainize opponents to stifle genuine debate, when real debate is exactly what's sorely needed. I say that because in this century every prominent Democrat has been dead wrong about Russia. Obama, Biden and Hillary wanted a reset, supported their entry into the WTO, mocked Romney for prioritizing Russia as a geopolitical adversary, and orchestrated a coup in Ukraine to install a pro-Western government. In return Russia invaded Crimea and fought with Assad in Syria with no material response from the US. Jump forward a few years and a little over a year into Biden's term Russia invades Ukraine again, leading to a war being significantly funded by the American taxpayer now in it's third year with no seeming end in sight. Russia has been forced to find new trading models outside the US system and is now closer to China, India, NoKo, and Iran. Economic sanctions haven't had much of an impact. But people can't discuss solutions, ideas, opportunities to end this thing or avoid it from happening again because Putin shill. Even though over the past 24 years Russia has behaved the worst under Democrat foreign policy.

All that to say that I still like Tulsi Gabbard. I don't think she's a Russian shill, even if her viewpoints are more considerate of Russian interests than typically seen. They also raise the bar for the American exercise of soft power which is something I wish had been exercised a bit more aggresively prior to the war. On this one I think it's particularly silly to question patriotism or loyalty, as if we're Ukrainian citizens or something.

[Maximus]

Frank and tooblue- Appreciate the thoughtful responses. Her viewpoints definitely run counter to the current majority viewpoint in America, but I'm still not seeing her as a Putin shill. For instance, in tooblue's first link he referenced this tweet that was pro-Russian:

Embedded Tweet

She's offering an opinion about how US foreign policy contributed to potential violence abroad. That happens all the time and, on this particular issue, her tweet echoes the sentiments of Madelyn Albright when she was Secretary of State and former Bush/Obama SecDef Robert Gates. I thinks she's probably wrong that NATO expansion was the singular catalyst for the Russian invasion, but it's equally naive to think it didn't play some role.

And it's ridiculous that saying as much makes one a Russian shill just because Putin may happen to agree with the statement. It's an approach that's intellectually lazy and is intended to villainize opponents to stifle genuine debate, when real debate is exactly what's sorely needed. I say that because in this century every prominent Democrat has been dead wrong about Russia. Obama, Biden and Hillary wanted a reset, supported their entry into the WTO, mocked Romney for prioritizing Russia as a geopolitical adversary, and orchestrated a coup in Ukraine to install a pro-Western government. In return Russia invaded Crimea and fought with Assad in Syria with no material response from the US. Jump forward a few years and a little over a year into Biden's term Russia invades Ukraine again, leading to a war being significantly funded by the American taxpayer now in it's third year with no seeming end in sight. Russia has been forced to find new trading models outside the US system and is now closer to China, India, NoKo, and Iran. Economic sanctions haven't had much of an impact. But people can't discuss solutions, ideas, opportunities to end this thing or avoid it from happening again because Putin shill. Even though over the past 24 years Russia has behaved the worst under Democrat foreign policy.

All that to say that I still like Tulsi Gabbard. I don't think she's a Russian shill, even if her viewpoints are more considerate of Russian interests than typically seen. They also raise the bar for the American exercise of soft power which is something I wish had been exercised a bit more aggresively prior to the war. On this one I think it's particularly silly to question patriotism or loyalty, as if we're Ukrainian citizens or something.

How is Biden responsible for Russia invading ? Do you disagree with supporting Ukraine against Russia?

She had a sudden change in heart around 2015 . She met with Assad and told us how great he is. She has no criticism at all for putin for its invasion. Not once. Do you agree with no criticism of putin? It is indeed shill move to pretend Nato expanding caused putin to do this.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Frank and tooblue- Appreciate the thoughtful responses. Her viewpoints definitely run counter to the current majority viewpoint in America, but I'm still not seeing her as a Putin shill. For instance, in tooblue's first link he referenced this tweet that was pro-Russian:

Embedded Tweet

She's offering an opinion about how US foreign policy contributed to potential violence abroad. That happens all the time and, on this particular issue, her tweet echoes the sentiments of Madelyn Albright when she was Secretary of State and former Bush/Obama SecDef Robert Gates. I thinks she's probably wrong that NATO expansion was the singular catalyst for the Russian invasion, but it's equally naive to think it didn't play some role.

And it's ridiculous that saying as much makes one a Russian shill just because Putin may happen to agree with the statement. It's an approach that's intellectually lazy and is intended to villainize opponents to stifle genuine debate, when real debate is exactly what's sorely needed. I say that because in this century every prominent Democrat has been dead wrong about Russia. Obama, Biden and Hillary wanted a reset, supported their entry into the WTO, mocked Romney for prioritizing Russia as a geopolitical adversary, and orchestrated a coup in Ukraine to install a pro-Western government. In return Russia invaded Crimea and fought with Assad in Syria with no material response from the US. Jump forward a few years and a little over a year into Biden's term Russia invades Ukraine again, leading to a war being significantly funded by the American taxpayer now in it's third year with no seeming end in sight. Russia has been forced to find new trading models outside the US system and is now closer to China, India, NoKo, and Iran. Economic sanctions haven't had much of an impact. But people can't discuss solutions, ideas, opportunities to end this thing or avoid it from happening again because Putin shill. Even though over the past 24 years Russia has behaved the worst under Democrat foreign policy.

All that to say that I still like Tulsi Gabbard. I don't think she's a Russian shill, even if her viewpoints are more considerate of Russian interests than typically seen. They also raise the bar for the American exercise of soft power which is something I wish had been exercised a bit more aggresively prior to the war. On this one I think it's particularly silly to question patriotism or loyalty, as if we're Ukrainian citizens or something.

You're saying they orchestrated the Maidan Revolution? This is news to me. Evidence? No doubt they were pleased with that (as was every Western democracy), but what did they do to prompt the Ukrainian Parliament to remove Yanukovich by an overwhelming vote? I remember Yanukovich and Russia calling it a coup, but a very large Ukrainian majority favored the parliamentary action. I'll reject the temptation to think your affection for Tulsi has made you a Russian shill.

[YOhio]

How is Biden responsible for Russia invading ? Do you disagree with supporting Ukraine against Russia?

She had a sudden change in heart around 2015 . She met with Assad and told us how great he is. She has no criticism at all for putin for its invasion. Not once. Do you agree with no criticism of putin? It is indeed shill move to pretend Nato expanding caused putin to do this.

I don't necessarily think Biden is responsible, but it certainly doesn't qualify as a foreign policy victory. I don't disagree with supporting Ukraine against Russia. I support Ukraine and want them to win and the current Russian government to eat shit. But I'm not opposed to discussions about the amount, extent, and duration of funding as well as visible attempts to find diplomatic resolution to the war.

I think Putin deserves all the criticism in the world and he's getting it, just not from someone advocating a non-interventionalist foreign policy. I disagree with many of her conclusions, but she raises points that should be addressed.

This NYT article The Friend of Our Enemy is not a Traitor does a good job capturing how I feel about it.

The genesis of Ms. Gabbard’s and Mr. Carlson’s opinions about Russia and Ukraine isn’t the Kremlin. It’s the war in Iraq. Ms. Gabbard has said her deployment there in 2004 “changed my life completely, as an individual as well as my perspective on the world.” Since then, she’s made opposition to U.S. military intervention her ideological North Star. At times that has led her to ignore the atrocities of America’s foes, such as when she voted in 2016 against a resolution accusing Syria’s government of war crimes. But at other times her anti-interventionist instinct has proved sound. Had the Obama administration heeded her call for a full withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2011, the United States might not have wasted billions of additional dollars on an unwinnable war.

....

Mr. Carlson’s and Ms. Gabbard’s views may be marginal in Washington. But as Mr. Trump’s election showed, telling Americans they’re being duped by a warmongering, globalist elite can be a potent message. And answering it requires recognizing the way America’s foreign policy establishment fuels populist distrust. Washington’s military-industrial complex did not orchestrate Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. But many of President Biden’s top foreign policy aides did spend their years between government service at either consulting firms funded by defense contractors or think tanks funded by defense contractors. Few politicians acknowledge how unethical that is. By contrast, Ms. Gabbard — who this year claimed that both Democrats and Republicans in Washington are “essentially in the pocket of the military-industrial complex” — calls the defense industry’s political influence a scandal. Many Americans who don’t share Mr. Carlson’s racial views still find it galling that politicians and pundits who lauded America’s wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya can appear on television to promote their latest hawkish stance without being reminded of the disasters those wars became. Mr. Carlson does remind them, often viciously.

Ms. Gabbard and Mr. Carlson have identified a genuine problem: the corruption and lack of accountability that plague American foreign policy. Addressing that problem will sap their appeal. Calling them traitors will only ensure that it grows.

[YOhio]

You're saying they orchestrated the Maidan Revolution? This is news to me. Evidence? No doubt they were pleased with that (as was every Western democracy), but what did they do to prompt the Ukrainian Parliament to remove Yanukovich by an overwhelming vote? I remember Yanukovich and Russia calling it a coup, but a very large Ukrainian majority favored the parliamentary action. I'll reject the temptation to think your affection for Tulsi has made you a Russian shill.

Sometimes when trying to make a point I talk out my ass.

[frank ryan]

Frank and tooblue- Appreciate the thoughtful responses. Her viewpoints definitely run counter to the current majority viewpoint in America, but I'm still not seeing her as a Putin shill. For instance, in tooblue's first link he referenced this tweet that was pro-Russian:

Embedded Tweet

She's offering an opinion about how US foreign policy contributed to potential violence abroad. That happens all the time and, on this particular issue, her tweet echoes the sentiments of Madelyn Albright when she was Secretary of State and former Bush/Obama SecDef Robert Gates. I thinks she's probably wrong that NATO expansion was the singular catalyst for the Russian invasion, but it's equally naive to think it didn't play some role.

And it's ridiculous that saying as much makes one a Russian shill just because Putin may happen to agree with the statement. It's an approach that's intellectually lazy and is intended to villainize opponents to stifle genuine debate, when real debate is exactly what's sorely needed. I say that because in this century every prominent Democrat has been dead wrong about Russia. Obama, Biden and Hillary wanted a reset, supported their entry into the WTO, mocked Romney for prioritizing Russia as a geopolitical adversary, and orchestrated a coup in Ukraine to install a pro-Western government. In return Russia invaded Crimea and fought with Assad in Syria with no material response from the US. Jump forward a few years and a little over a year into Biden's term Russia invades Ukraine again, leading to a war being significantly funded by the American taxpayer now in it's third year with no seeming end in sight. Russia has been forced to find new trading models outside the US system and is now closer to China, India, NoKo, and Iran. Economic sanctions haven't had much of an impact. But people can't discuss solutions, ideas, opportunities to end this thing or avoid it from happening again because Putin shill. Even though over the past 24 years Russia has behaved the worst under Democrat foreign policy.

All that to say that I still like Tulsi Gabbard. I don't think she's a Russian shill, even if her viewpoints are more considerate of Russian interests than typically seen. They also raise the bar for the American exercise of soft power which is something I wish had been exercised a bit more aggresively prior to the war. On this one I think it's particularly silly to question patriotism or loyalty, as if we're Ukrainian citizens or something.

It is still Trump who was the most favorable leader the Russians have had in DC in our lifetimes. The fact they didn't invade Ukraine while he was in office doesn't invalidate that. We can't assume that there weren't other factors at play, including the willingness of the Chinese or other Russian partners to accommodate or support this mess. When Putin invaded he wasn't expecting a big long dragged out war. He expected Kiev to fall within days. Even out of office, Trump tried to derail funding the Ukrainians and his imps in congress slowed it down for a while.

MBN, would know better than anyone, but what little I have heard is that Trump has made life hard for public servants at ngos.

The Kremlin wants Trump back, and you can see that because their state media is pushing for that.

He would be easy for an unprincipled person to manipulate. He's probably casually spilled a bunch of top secret shit. Who knows what kind of intelligence he has let slip.

Some of the intelligence Trump stole and lost had to do with Russian election interference. It involved both sources and methods. It would be incredibly incredibly valuable for our adversaries to get their hands on. Just a tad more concerning than Hillary's e-mails.

With Gabbard it's not just what she says, but what she doesn't say. She is mute when it comes to criticism of Russia and Putin. She was similarly quiet when running for POTUS when it came to Trump. She made the cowardly choice to vote present during Trump's impeachment. But was anything but quiet when it came to the other democratic opponents.

Her appearances on RT are not a good look and she sprinted into the orbit of folks like Tucker Carlson, and has sung the praises of RFK Jr. If you extend the generosity needed to believe her, she sure has betrayed her supposed progressive roots.

I don't think Russia's encouragement into Ukraine is out of their concern for security but reasserting territorial ambitions. Putin's story has been deNazification. That's absolute horseshit.

Putin has long lamented the breakup of the USSR as a great tragedy. The current Russian power structure is a kleptocracy made up of ex-commies turned oligarchs with Putin as top dog. They aren't driven by democratic ambitions.

It won't stop with Ukraine, my guess is Moldova would be next or perhaps the Baltics. Putin has increasingly been threatening NATO states. He doesn't have to really worry about article 5 because Orban in Hungry, and potentially Erdogan in Turkey would block that.

[myboynoah]

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