On abortion

[Northwestcoug]

More insanity:

[The Oklahoma Legislature gave final approval on Thursday to a bill that prohibits nearly all abortions starting at fertilization, which would make it the nation’s strictest abortion law.

The bill is modeled on one that took effect in Texas in September, which has relied on civilian instead of criminal enforcement to work around court challenges. But it goes further than the Texas law, which bans abortions after about six weeks of pregnancy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/u...abortions.html

Again, whatever excesses that came from Roe v. Wade pale in comparison to what we're witnessing now.

[Moliere]

I will bet you $1,000 on the spot that within a year after Roe being overturned there will be mainstream politicians on the right pursuing criminalization of the morning-after pill. Care to accept?

Does Ted Cruz qualify as mainstream?

Id definitely not take that bet. I don’t think such a bill could pass but that won’t stop the crazies on the right from pursuing it.

Just two years ago it was the left that was insanely puritanical. Now that momentum is swinging to the right.

[Non Sequitur]

So worth it.

(p.s. the histrionics on the left about all the slippery slope potential things that could happen remind me of the histrionics on the right about all the slippery slope potential things that could happen with gay marriage)

I will bet you $1,000 on the spot that within a year after Roe being overturned there will be mainstream politicians on the right pursuing criminalization of the morning-after pill. Care to accept?

[BigFatMeanie]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

Embedded Tweet

This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

So worth it.

(p.s. the histrionics on the left about all the slippery slope potential things that could happen remind me of the histrionics on the right about all the slippery slope potential things that could happen with gay marriage)

[MartyFunkhouser]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

Embedded Tweet

This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

I'm going to hope that this is just hyperbole and not really being discussed. For example, I can't find anything about Marsha Blackburn proposing a contraception ban.

Now of course Cocaine Mitch will be the hypocrite of all hypocrites and throw out an abortion ban.

[Applejack]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

Embedded Tweet

This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

Beware the wacky Maga states...

[falafel]

That is insanity. I doubt most of those will pass but the fact they are being openly discussed is troubling.

Im not sure why we can’t just meet in the middle and have something comparable to what our liberal Europeans friends have, which is the right to elective abortion for up to 15 weeks and then after that only in cases where the life of the child or mother is at stake. Seems reasonable and while I’d prefer even fewer abortions I’d be willing to support someone that voted for such a bill.

That's because our European friends are godless heathens and we are living with evangelical christians running the right.

[Moliere]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

Embedded Tweet

This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

That is insanity. I doubt most of those will pass but the fact they are being openly discussed is troubling.

Im not sure why we can’t just meet in the middle and have something comparable to what our liberal Europeans friends have, which is the right to elective abortion for up to 15 weeks and then after that only in cases where the life of the child or mother is at stake. Seems reasonable and while I’d prefer even fewer abortions I’d be willing to support someone that voted for such a bill.

[Northwestcoug]

Here's a nice little thread documenting what kind of anti-abrotion and other anti-privacy laws red states will be pushing for a generation, at least:

Embedded Tweet

This really is insanity. Was repealing the excesses of Roe v Wade worth what's coming in the future?

[Moliere]

even California passed prop 8 after they legalized marriage. Surely you can think of a few states that given sufficient legislative majorities would overturn it. Just check out the latest polling for each state.

Back then even Obama ran on support for traditional marriage laws. Things have changed dramatically in the past decade in acceptance of gay marriage. It’s not even close to comparable to abortion.

[Pelado]

Abortion is kind of a one and done thing. No lasting legal complications.

Unless the mother decides against it.

[beefytee]

even California passed prop 8 after they legalized marriage. Surely you can think of a few states that given sufficient legislative majorities would overturn it. Just check out the latest polling for each state.

There are a lot of complications with gay marriage that you don't run into with abortions which would make it difficult to overturn. IIRC one of the reasons gay marriage was made legal everywhere was because when gay couples move to states that didn't recognize gay marriage, they couldn't get divorced. Abortion is kind of a one and done thing. No lasting legal complications.

[Northwestcoug]

How many times has gay marriage been challenged since Obergefell? There’s no appetite to overturn it. That cat is out of the bag and the vast majority support it.

Sure anything can happen with this new type of Trump conservative, but even the GOP has some high profile gay leaders.

If Obergefell gets overturned, I suspect 50 states would pass gay marriage laws. Yes, I suspect Utah would pass one as well.

even California passed prop 8 after they legalized marriage. Surely you can think of a few states that given sufficient legislative majorities would overturn it. Just check out the latest polling for each state.

[Northwestcoug]

It has been interesting to see who people describe the laws in Europe. The link you provided from the "Center for Reproductive Rights" has a clear bias. Here is one from the other side:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...law-comparison



And here is a summary from the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/22/u...oe-global.html



We can argue about degree, but Roe v. Wade has made the US an outlier.

yes, the us is an outlier, but not 2 standard deviations. Some states will now be an outlier on the other side of the curve.

[Omaha 680]

"When is your fetus due?"
"Have you announced the sex of your fetus yet?"
"What are you going to name your fetus?"

Which reminds us that in the context of the current debate, for one extreme a fetus is only a person if it is wanted by the parents, no matter how developed the baby is. This speaks to your point of the unique issue of competing rights that abortion entails. As distasteful as it is to regulate pregnancy and childbirth, it is equally distasteful to place value and confer rights on a person solely based on whether they are wanted. This is not an easy issue and one of the things I think Europe does much better than us.