States and Unions

[Borderline Divine]

Large protests have been staged the past two days in Madison, Wi., over the teahadist Governor's proposed budget. He of course guts education, educators of course march.

Nothing to see here? Well it just took a delicious twist. The Wi. senate has 19 Repubs and 14 Dems. A quorum of 20 is needed to move forward. The 14 Dems just hopped a bus and have left the state, while the Wi. state troopers were out searching for them.

http://atr.org/liberal-meltdown-wisconsin-a5868#

Here's some more from the local TV station

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/...Committee.html

[Moliere]

I'm not pro-union or anti-union, but stripping someone of collective bargaining rights doesn't sound like a good idea, nor does it sound constitutional.

[frank ryan]

I'm not pro-union or anti-union, but stripping someone of collective bargaining rights doesn't sound like a good idea, nor does it sound constitutional.

Public employees with a few exceptions, are granted collective bargaining rights at the governments whim. This is why MLK was in Memphis, he was supporting the sanitation workers who didn't have collective bargaining rights. It is also why Utah state employees are underpaid.
This stuff in Wisconsin is an all out war on public sector workers.

[Indy Coug]

Reagan showed the Air Traffic Controllers just how many collective bargaining rights they had.

[frank ryan]

Reagan showed the Air Traffic Controllers just how many collective bargaining rights they had.

That was a turncoat move by an ex-union president.

[Moliere]

Public employees with a few exceptions, are granted collective bargaining rights at the governments whim. This is why MLK was in Memphis, he was supporting the sanitation workers who didn't have collective bargaining rights. It is also why Utah state employees are underpaid.
This stuff in Wisconsin is an all out war on public sector workers.

You can spin it that way or spin it to say it's an all out war on the tax paying residents of Wisconsin. It just depends on which cable network you watch.

Like I said in another thread, the citizens can either stick around and pay the increased taxes that would come from concessions to unions, or they can move to a place where public servants aren't constantly bickering over paying $10 more to see the doctor.

There is a reason that Texas has three of the fastest growing cities in the US and it certainly isn't because of the scenery or the mild summers.

[frank ryan]

You can spin it that way or spin it to say it's an all out war on the tax paying residents of Wisconsin. It just depends on which cable network you watch.

Like I said in another thread, the citizens can either stick around and pay the increased taxes that would come from concessions to unions, or they can move to a place where public servants aren't constantly bickering over paying $10 more to see the doctor.

There is a reason that Texas has three of the fastest growing cities in the US and it certainly isn't because of the scenery or the mild summers.

Yeah, I may have been hyperbolic but I think the workers in Wisconsin would agree with me.

[Indy Coug]

The unions have no one but themselves to blame for the predicaments they find themselves in these days. They hastened the flight of unskilled jobs abroad and they have done a miserable job with PR.

[frank ryan]

The unions have no one but themselves to blame for the predicaments they find themselves in these days. They hastened the flight of unskilled jobs abroad and they have done a miserable job with PR.

So Indy,why is your hatred directed toward unions?

[Moliere]

The unions have no one but themselves to blame for the predicaments they find themselves in these days. They hastened the flight of unskilled jobs abroad and they have done a miserable job with PR.

Don't be so broad. There are some good unions out there. We have several unions in our company and they have good relationships with company management. Granted the work they do cannot be outsourced, but they still get paid well but not to the point that we want to cut them off.

With many of the large unions (UAW, AFL-CIO) I would agree with you in your assessment, but many others play nicely and get rewarded for playing nicely.

The best thing that could ever have happend to the UAW is for them to own 30% of GM. It's a catch 22 where if their workers want more concessions they do it at the cost of their VEBA trust. In some ways it's not unlike killing the goose that lays golden eggs.

[happyone]

Reagan showed the Air Traffic Controllers just how many collective bargaining rights they had.

I don't about the ATC's but when I started with the Fed Gov't slightly before the strike, I signed a no strike agreement in my employment paper work. IF they signed the same paperwork, IMO he was well with in his rights to fire them

[Goatnapper'96]

So Indy,why is your hatred directed toward unions?

Because they are the ones responsible for the bad things, at least bad in his opinion perhaps you think the degradation of US manufacturing is a good thing as my guess is the unions representing the labor jobs in manufacturing that absolutely must be in the US probably are not to bothered by the trends, he mentions. Now if Elders Quorum Presidents or Parent Teacher Associations were primarily responsible for driving the cost of US labor to the point where it became cheaper to produce things in other countries I would assume he would direct his hatred toward those respective organizations. He could direct his hate towards those organizations now, but it would do no good as Elders Quorum Presidencies and PTAs are not responsible for those actions.

Post WWII middle class America had an unprecedented period of prosperity and much of that was brought to fruition by organized labor. Ronnie won the Cold War and China came out of its dark ages and now the world is hungry for jobs. Not to worry, in another 80 years the standard of living in Bangledesh and Laos will increase enough that wrt US consumers it will make financial sense to shorten the supply chains and produce goods in the vicinity of where they will be sold. It was a great time to be a factory worker in the 1960s, but the reality is the Unions played a role in pushing labor abroad.

[frank ryan]

Because they are the ones responsible for the bad things, at least bad in his opinion perhaps you think the degradation of US manufacturing is a good thing as my guess is the unions representing the labor jobs in manufacturing that absolutely must be in the US probably are not to bothered by the trends, he mentions. Now if Elders Quorum Presidents or Parent Teacher Associations were primarily responsible for driving the cost of US labor to the point where it became cheaper to produce things in other countries I would assume he would direct his hatred toward those respective organizations. He could direct his hate towards those organizations now, but it would do no good as Elders Quorum Presidencies and PTAs are not responsible for those actions.

Post WWII middle class America had an unprecedented period of prosperity and much of that was brought to fruition by organized labor. Ronnie won the Cold War and China came out of its dark ages and now the world is hungry for jobs. Not to worry, in another 80 years the standard of living in Bangledesh and Laos will increase enough that wrt US consumers it will make financial sense to shorten the supply chains and produce goods in the vicinity of where they will be sold. It was a great time to be a factory worker in the 1960s, but the reality is the Unions played a role in pushing labor abroad.

Thanks Indy Coug. So you hate unions because you believe American labor is too expensive., they would have outsourced that industry absent a union movement. China would still be the worlds factory absent unionization.

[Goatnapper'96]

Thanks Indy Coug. So you hate unions because you believe American labor is too expensive., they would have outsourced that industry absent a union movement. China would still be the worlds factory absent unionization.

Link?

[frank ryan]

Link?

Link yourself, you are one who claimed unionization is why all the manufacturing jobs were outsourced. A non-union steel worker still costs more than a Chinese one.