Does Trump favor Russia over Ukraine?

[frank ryan]

[Moliere]

I think he favors Russia for two reasons. He admires the dictatorial nature of Putin. He hates Zelenskyy for not helping him with the sham investigation of the Biden family.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Lol.

Next up, a poll about whether water is wet or not.

[Maximus]

I think he favors Russia for two reasons. He admires the dictatorial nature of Putin. He hates Zelenskyy for not helping him with the sham investigation of the Biden family.

and russian banks gave him hundreds of millions when no one else would. oh and videos.

[PaloAltoCougar]

One could make a superficial argument that Trump is neutral and that he's trying to mediate a settlement. But being neutral on Russia's invasion of Ukraine with all of the related war crimes is a terrible geopolitical and moral failure.

[Northwestcoug]

This should be the shortest thread ever.

[frank ryan]

Lol.

Next up, a poll about whether water is wet or not.

You'd think, but we've had a couple of folks bend over backwards to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[dabrockster]

A better poll. Do you favor Trumps Peace plan for Ukraine?

Do we send troops? What do we wish the outcome to be? What is an end solution you think we should do? What outcome do you think is best? And what is the reality of what will actually happen.

We all know he favors Russia. He was also against military support of Ukraine before the war.

Found this article and to be an interesting read.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...ce=chatgpt.com

[frank ryan]

A better poll. Do you favor Trumps Peace plan for Ukraine?

Do we send troops? What do we wish the outcome to be? What is an end solution you think we should do? What outcome do you think is best? And what is the reality of what will actually happen.

We all know he favors Russia. He was also against military support of Ukraine before the war.

Found this article and to be an interesting read.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...ce=chatgpt.com

That's a bunch of questions at once. I don't think Trump sincerely cares about Ukraine

[BlueK]

A better poll. Do you favor Trumps Peace plan for Ukraine?

Do we send troops? What do we wish the outcome to be? What is an end solution you think we should do? What outcome do you think is best? And what is the reality of what will actually happen.

We all know he favors Russia. He was also against military support of Ukraine before the war.

Found this article and to be an interesting read.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...ce=chatgpt.com

Russia is going to reject it anyway, or say they accept but almost immediately break it.

[PaloAltoCougar]

A better poll. Do you favor Trumps Peace plan for Ukraine?

Do we send troops? What do we wish the outcome to be? What is an end solution you think we should do? What outcome do you think is best? And what is the reality of what will actually happen.

We all know he favors Russia. He was also against military support of Ukraine before the war.

Found this article and to be an interesting read.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...ce=chatgpt.com

Thanks for linked article/interview. Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs are the most articulate apologists for Putin that I've read or listened to (although in fairness, even they aren't big fans of the guy--they just think his actions were justified) and I think they're simply wrong. I like Sachs's views on nuclear power (we need a lot more) but he's an economist, not a historian or political theorist. I've read endless discussions on why Putin invaded, how he was threatened by NATO expansion, and how he has no territorial ambitions, etc., and I don't think they're legitimate. Putin is, in short, an evil person, and it's essential that he not be rewarded for this tragic war. I'm certain that the many people Putin has murdered (see, e.g., Alexai Navalny and all of those people falling out of windows), the parents of the thousands of Ukrainian children whose kidnapping Putin approved, the thousands of Ukrainian women who were raped with Putin's consent, and the millions of people whose lives have been ended or hopelessly ruined because of Putin's "security concerns" agree with me.

[dabrockster]

That's a bunch of questions at once. I don't think Trump sincerely cares about Ukraine

That response is just as clear as the poll question and one we agree. So I will ask one question.

What do you wish we would do?

I guess the point is, if we continue to arm and meddle from a far, we have continued loss of lives. It then could easily escalate all out war in Europe. Endless war doesn’t sound good.

There are no winners here. Nor is the peace agreement going to be good for Ukraine. This is why Biden Admin just kicked this can down the road. They were only going to feed Ukraine with weapons and let the war continue. Not a fan of what agreement will happen but endless war sounds worse.

Do I think Putin will invade again? Possibly but this mineral deal places US interests in Ukraine and that adds another layer of power when we have Americans in Ukraine. Is that enough deterrent to keep Putin at bay. That remains to be seen but I would think this will at least bolster the chances of it not happening. But again Biden was a feckless president who thought diplomacy was going to work and reason with Putin. He was weak and Putin capitalized on it.

I wish he would just die (Ahem. Natural causes..). And had hopes at the beginning of the war of a coup but it didn’t happen.

[dabrockster]

Thanks for linked article/interview. Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs are the most articulate apologists for Putin that I've read or listened to (although in fairness, even they aren't big fans of the guy--they just think his actions were justified) and I think they're simply wrong. I like Sachs's views on nuclear power (we need a lot more) but he's an economist, not a historian or political theorist. I've read endless discussions on why Putin invaded, how he was threatened by NATO expansion, and how he has no territorial ambitions, etc., and I don't think they're legitimate. Putin is, in short, an evil person, and it's essential that he not be rewarded for this tragic war. I'm certain that the many people Putin has murdered (see, e.g., Alexai Navalny and all of those people falling out of windows), the parents of the thousands of Ukrainian children whose kidnapping Putin approved, the thousands of Ukrainian women who were raped with Putin's consent, and the millions of people whose lives have been ended or hopelessly ruined because of Putin's "security concerns" agree with me.

I liked that the guy who was asking questions pushed him a little on some of his statements. I need to read up more but have heard the same statement before . “Putin Apologist”.

To me. He sounds pragmatic in his assessment of Putin and recognizes the guy will likely never keep his word. Only pragmatic solution is to placate the guy for now and wait for him to die. This sound like we are putting off the inevitable WW3 but the alternative sounds worse.

I am not sure how we ensure Putin does not come out a winner. I think if Ukraine’s and U.S. finalize the mineral deal and get this peace deal done (Even with the loss of land), Putin will see this as a loss as U.S. now has what he wanted in the mineral deal and a presence in Ukraine with shared interests and would then be committed if those are threatened in the future.

[LVAllen]

Russia is going to reject it anyway, or say they accept but almost immediately break it.

They bombed Zelenskyy's hometown today.

[frank ryan]

That response is just as clear as the poll question and one we agree. So I will ask one question.

What do you wish we would do?

I guess the point is, if we continue to arm and meddle from a far, we have continued loss of lives. It then could easily escalate all out war in Europe. Endless war doesn’t sound good.

There are no winners here. Nor is the peace agreement going to be good for Ukraine. This is why Biden Admin just kicked this can down the road. They were only going to feed Ukraine with weapons and let the war continue. Not a fan of what agreement will happen but endless war sounds worse.

Do I think Putin will invade again? Possibly but this mineral deal places US interests in Ukraine and that adds another layer of power when we have Americans in Ukraine. Is that enough deterrent to keep Putin at bay. That remains to be seen but I would think this will at least bolster the chances of it not happening. But again Biden was a feckless president who thought diplomacy was going to work and reason with Putin. He was weak and Putin capitalized on it.

I wish he would just die (Ahem. Natural causes..). And had hopes at the beginning of the war of a coup but it didn’t happen.

I don't think Biden kicked the can down the road. I wish would've acted far more aggressively much earlier, in terms of giving Ukraine greater access to arms with less restrictions. I don't think Biden believed diplomacy was the answer at all. He was supportive of arming Ukraine and pushing for sanctions to isolate Russia. It was Republicans under order from an out of office Trump who stalled the aid.

If Biden had won and NATO viability not in doubt Russia would be taking a different tact. They had to invite North Korea out of isolation because they running out of men to send to their death.

Biden should've acted more aggressively but I don't think there was much energy around putting American boots on the ground. Only one European country flirted with that possibility: France.

Obama and W missed opportunities to show strength during times of Russian aggression.

This is absolutely a win for Russia. The fact we were one of a few countries to side with Russia in the UN in appalling.
One maddening lie that Vance and Trump have told, to humiliate Zelenskyy, was that they actively gave his country vast sums of cash. Much of what gave was ammo and equipment that bound to expire and we were relayed with the extremely valuable intel.

That press conference was stomach-churningly insincere and disgusting

Putin has absolutely nothing to fear from Trump. Every foreign policy move Trump makes works in favor of or holds harmless, Russian interests. I know you are skeptical about Trump's allegiance to Putin, but that's almost immaterial because he behaves the exact same way someone who was Putin's bitch would behave, and world is less safe because of that.

No one is particularly fond of endless war, but Ukraine the has right to fight for their existence and they weren't at fault for this. Don't fall for Russia's false victimhood story. Putin has always been about establishing to Russian/Soviet empire. This victory not only won't lead to peace, it will embolden Russia to take more actions.