A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Jerusalem: Gaza/Israel conflict

[Omaha 680]

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[Donuthole]

Wow.

[frank ryan]

It’s crazy how many liberals/socialists are avoiding condemning the terroirs attacks on civilians. Instead they seem to have a narrative that “Gaza was an open air prison” as if that justifies killing, raping and parading the dead bodies of civilians. Israel is no sant but they don’t deserve what is happening and they have a right to ensure it never happens again.

You can have problems with Israeli's treatment of Palestinians and still condemn what Hamas did. I don't know people struggle with this. There is no justification for the horrific attack. It shouldn't even be something that causes internal conflict.

[Omaha 680]

You can have problems with Israeli's treatment of Palestinians and still condemn what Hamas did. I don't know people struggle with this. There is no justification for the horrific attack. It shouldn't even be something that causes internal conflict.

Exactly. This isn't that hard. There will be plenty of time to get back to quarreling about Israel's general policies toward Palestinians. But in the immediate aftermath of this slaughter, the appropriate steps are solidarity with the Jewish victims and commitment that Hamas must be destroyed, or at a minimum completely marginalized and isolated. I guess the far right has been self-owning so much the past few years that the far left feels left out and wants to use this opportunity to broadcast that they are also quite dumb.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

The brutality of these attacks is something that you hear about from WWII, Khmer Rouge, Rwandan Civil War, etc. Beheading babies? You can scarcely imagine how anyone can devolve to such a state where they would do something like this.

Gaza (let's dispense with just saying Hamas, a majority of the assholes in Gaza support Hamas) went way, way too far. Israel, full of the most advanced military equipment and smartest people in the world, is going to unleash on this place and they're not going to give a shit what Iran, North Korea and the rest of the world's assholes have to say about it. Let the Arab world deal with these Hamas-supporting asshole refugees. Level the place and salt the earth.

Were all the people in Dresden card-carrying members of the Nazi party? Were all the people in Tokyo supportive of Imperial Japan's actions? Gaza did what it did because it's delusional, pre-civilization and has never had the fight taken out of it.

[USUC]

Following up from yesterday

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If this is indeed the case, a reckoning must surely follow.

[fusnik]

Exactly. This isn't that hard. There will be plenty of time to get back to quarreling about Israel's general policies toward Palestinians. But in the immediate aftermath of this slaughter, the appropriate steps are solidarity with the Jewish victims and commitment that Hamas must be destroyed, or at a minimum completely marginalized and isolated. I guess the far right has been self-owning so much the past few years that the far left feels left out and wants to use this opportunity to broadcast that they are also quite dumb.

Ive only read Rashida and Cori Bush say crazy things and were both rebuked by another far left member Torres. Bernie has condemned the attacks. Biden all in on support for Israel, politically the Democratic Party has been healthy in regards to this which makes me optimistic towards the movement.

What does it mean to destroy Hamas? It seems as of today it means to bomb residences, cut off food, water and electricity to civilians and not allow those people to evacuate.

There are 2 million people who live in the strip, it’s shocking to read people so brazenly talk about leveling the home of millions of innocent humans.

Are we cool with 50k, 100k, 200k, civilians dead?

I hope it doesn’t spin out of control.

[Omaha 680]

Following up from yesterday

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If this is indeed the case, a reckoning must surely follow.

Yes. This will all come out in the investigations. There is precedent as Golda Meir eventually had to resign from inquiries concerning how Israel was surprised by the Yom Kippur War. She led through the conflict and then I believe ended up resigning several months later. I could see Netanyahu following a similar fate if the reports are true.

[Omaha 680]

Ive only read Rashida and Cori Bush say crazy things and were both rebuked by another far left member Torres. Bernie has condemned the attacks. Biden all in on support for Israel, politically the Democratic Party has been healthy in regards to this which makes me optimistic towards the movement.

What does it mean to destroy Hamas? It seems as of today it means to bomb residences, cut off food, water and electricity to civilians and not allow those people to evacuate.

There are 2 million people who live in the strip, it’s shocking to read people so brazenly talk about leveling the home of millions of innocent humans.

Are we cool with 50k, 100k, 200k, civilians dead?

I hope it doesn’t spin out of control.

Tlaib and Bush were by far the worst, but Omar's Twitter feed has not been the best. And good on Torres for cracking back. AOC once again shows she is the most politically astute member of the squad by just keeping quiet to avoid any Jew hatred unintentionally spilling out. But my statement about the far left above was not specifically about politicians. It's about campus organizations and BLM and workers groups and the Democratic Socialists. They are all rushing to be first in line to justify baby decapitations and gang rape followed by mutilation. It's bizarre.

I'm not "cool" with any amount of civilian death. But not all are innocent. Gaza elected Hamas and cheers on their actions; Hamas has majority support in most polls of Gaza. Destroy Hamas at a minimum means kill (or capture) every leader possible; end their organizational structure and staging grounds they have employed since the Israeli withdrawal. I recognize it is awful what the truly innocent are experiencing and will continue to experience in Gaza. But I think things already spun out of control when the babies were being decapitated.

[fusnik]

Tlaib and Bush were by far the worst, but Omar's Twitter feed has not been the best. And good on Torres for cracking back. AOC once again shows she is the most politically astute member of the squad by just keeping quiet to avoid any Jew hatred unintentionally spilling out. But my statement about the far left above was not specifically about politicians. It's about campus organizations and BLM and workers groups and the Democratic Socialists. They are all rushing to be first in line to justify baby decapitations and gang rape followed by mutilation. It's bizarre.

I'm not "cool" with any amount of civilian death. But not all are innocent. Gaza elected Hamas and cheers on their actions; Hamas has majority support in most polls of Gaza. Destroy Hamas at a minimum means kill (or capture) every leader possible; end their organizational structure and staging grounds they have employed since the Israeli withdrawal. I recognize it is awful what the truly innocent are experiencing and will continue to experience in Gaza. But I think things already spun out of control when the babies were being decapitated.

Half the people in Gaza are under 18.

What’s the appropriate punishment? You aren’t going to destroy Hamas, it’s an ideology, so what can realistically be done? Kill civilians until the death count is even Stevens? Kill double? Triple?

The bloodlust is fascinating to me, it actually freaks me out.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Half the people in Gaza are under 18.

What’s the appropriate punishment? You aren’t going to destroy Hamas, it’s an ideology, so what can realistically be done? Kill civilians until the death count is even Stevens? Kill double? Triple?

The bloodlust is fascinating to me, it actually freaks me out.

I agree that this is extraordinarily difficult.

What would you do if you were Israel? Hamas has been clear from day 1 that their objective is the complete destruction of Israel. And they were elected to power by a vote of the majority of the people in Gaza. Hamas committed an act of war by invading Israel. What is the proper response?

[Northwestcoug]

Israel has every right to defend itself. The Hamas attack is unprecedented and most sane people support a military response. But that response from the IDF minister, "no food, no electricity, no water", is chilling. If that is borne out for any length of time, it will lead to a humanitarian disaster that is way out of proportion to the atrocities Hamas inflicted on Israel.

[Omaha 680]

Half the people in Gaza are under 18.

What’s the appropriate punishment? You aren’t going to destroy Hamas, it’s an ideology, so what can realistically be done? Kill civilians until the death count is even Stevens? Kill double? Triple?

The bloodlust is fascinating to me, it actually freaks me out.

Fair questions but if they are directed at me they mischaracterize my post. This isn't about punishment or bloodlust for me, it's about permanently altering the conditions on the ground in Gaza and the permanent security measures around gaza to make this kind of attack impossible in the future. That answers the other questions about what does destroying Hamas mean? You could equally say "you can't destroy ISIS, it's an ideology". True but you can degrade their capability and then keep constant pressure on such that they cease to be a major threat.

I am not minimizing the horrors that are coming for Gaza. It is terrifying and heartbreaking. I hope and pray that suffering can be minimized. But what other option does Israel have today than invade and kill all of Hamas they can?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Israel has every right to defend itself. The Hamas attack is unprecedented and most sane people support a military response. But that response from the IDF minister, "no food, no electricity, no water", is chilling. If that is borne out for any length of time, it will lead to a humanitarian disaster that is way out of proportion to the atrocities Hamas inflicted on Israel.

So what would you do? Be specific.

[Northwestcoug]

So what would you do? Be specific.

I'm not advocating any plan. I'm only stating what I think the result will be if Israel is serious about a complete blockade of all of Gaza.

I don't know how you solve a problem like Gaza, without major concessions coming from both sides.

What would you do?