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2022 Midterm Elections

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  • #31
    After Biden's speech on 1/6, KSL had some people on (local and national) talking about the response to it. Their general takeaway was that Biden missed an opportunity. He talked about how bad 1/6 was, but didn't ever give a "so what" moment - just presented the case like a prosecutor as to why Trump is a horrible person.

    So - if Biden is running against Trump during the mid-terms - maybe it will help?

    But by far the biggest takeaway is that the folks in the middle - unaffiliated, independent, or moderate voters who tend to swing from one side to the other in national elections - were disappointed in what seems like an ongoing effort to just talk about how bad Trump is/was and how horrible 1/6 is/was without actually making an effort to bring people together and unify them behind any kind of movement. Politically, it came across as Biden speaking to his base and not trying to build anything.

    I think there can be an element of "Trump was bad for our country, let's avoid his brand of politics" movement - but it has to end with a call to bring people together to "build the America we all hope for", and less of a focus just being about how horrible Trump is/was.

    I'm not a politician, but what they said made sense to me. That was the lesson learned in the Virginia Governor's race, they kept saying - the Dems tried to just make it about Trump, while the Rep who won made it about the issues people care about. They were worried that Biden's speech was a demonstration that the Dems hadn't really learned that lesson - thinking everyone should respond as the Dems are. But they aren't reading the room.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by USUC View Post
      But a failed insurrection alone just isn't going to provide you with landslide movement in battle ground states you hope for. Normal people not as politically engaged just don't care that much about it.
      I don't think anyone here is predicting a democratic landslide. They definitely have an uphill battle to keep the house. We are talking about issues that could tip things one way or the other. 1/6 and Triump seem to be the only issues that could work for the dems. The only other issue could be if the supreme court overturns Roe v. Wade. That would definitely favor the dems in the midterms.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by USUC View Post

        This isn't a black and white case for the everyman as it is your us.
        Is this quote above about January 6th? If so, it's pretty black and white.

        I get that most people (somehow) think Jan 6 wasn't that important, or that it was bad but education is far worse (abstract alert!). But I think just letting 1/6 fade into history because we haven't had another insurrection in the past 12 months is the worst thing democrats could do. Maybe the dems lose the house/senate by mentioning 1/6 at every turn (probably), but if we allow 1/2 the country to be outraged by the democrats "using it to their advantage" instead of 100% of the country outraged that THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE STORMED THE CAPITOL UNDER A FALSE, WHOLLY DEBUNKED BELIEF THAT THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED BY DEMOCRATIC VOTING MACHINES, we only let Trump or his ilk continue to infuse dangerous nonsense into the national bloodstream.

        Hawley.jpg

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Applejack View Post

          Is this quote above about January 6th? If so, it's pretty black and white.

          I get that most people (somehow) think Jan 6 wasn't that important, or that it was bad but education is far worse (abstract alert!). But I think just letting 1/6 fade into history because we haven't had another insurrection in the past 12 months is the worst thing democrats could do. Maybe the dems lose the house/senate by mentioning 1/6 at every turn (probably), but if we allow 1/2 the country to be outraged by the democrats "using it to their advantage" instead of 100% of the country outraged that THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE STORMED THE CAPITOL UNDER A FALSE, WHOLLY DEBUNKED BELIEF THAT THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED BY DEMOCRATIC VOTING MACHINES, we only let Trump or his ilk continue to infuse dangerous nonsense into the national bloodstream.

          Hawley.jpg
          Again, my argument can be summed up in this statement:

          - Most voters will prioritize other issues above their concern for Jan 6th.

          Thats it. I wish the country would be more concerned about the illiberalism among the politicians in this country. I wish they cared more that Trump world tried to overturn an election. I wish they cared more about the threats of packing the court or getting rid of the filibuster. I wish they cared more about criminal justice reform. I wish they cared more about getting rid of licensing that disproportionately affects the poor. But people care most about what hurts their pocketbook, affects their children, and makes life more inconvenient for them.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by USUC View Post

            Again, my argument can be summed up in this statement:

            - Most voters will prioritize other issues above their concern for Jan 6th.

            Thats it. I wish the country would be more concerned about the illiberalism among the politicians in this country. I wish they cared more that Trump world tried to overturn an election. I wish they cared more about the threats of packing the court or getting rid of the filibuster. I wish they cared more about criminal justice reform. I wish they cared more about getting rid of licensing that disproportionately affects the poor. But people care most about what hurts their pocketbook, affects their children, and makes life more inconvenient for them.
            Agreed. Although I will add that they vote on things they are afraid of as well (covid, govt mandating masks, immigrants, CRT, etc). Many of these are real things to be afraid of, but, sadly, alot of them are not.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Applejack View Post

              Agreed. Although I will add that they vote on things they are afraid of as well (covid, govt mandating masks, immigrants, CRT, etc). Many of these are real things to be afraid of, but, sadly, alot of them are not.
              I will concede that Trump is the wild card in all of this. I don't think he factors as much in the midterms, but not having anyone in the GOP with standing that can confidently push back on Trump makes things more interesting than they would otherwise be. Otherwise "reasonable" GOP candidates seem to fall all over themselves to appease Trump when it is completely unnecessary (see Youngkin who didn't).

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              • #37
                Originally posted by USUC View Post

                Again, my argument can be summed up in this statement:

                - Most voters will prioritize other issues above their concern for Jan 6th.

                Thats it. I wish the country would be more concerned about the illiberalism among the politicians in this country. I wish they cared more that Trump world tried to overturn an election. I wish they cared more about the threats of packing the court or getting rid of the filibuster. I wish they cared more about criminal justice reform. I wish they cared more about getting rid of licensing that disproportionately affects the poor. But people care most about what hurts their pocketbook, affects their children, and makes life more inconvenient for them.
                I am shocked that a group of upper middle class moderates are shocked that not everyone cares about Trump as much as they do!

                The systematic erosion of our institutional legitimacy is a threat to our democracy. Usually the attacks from our political elites and the political pundits are more incremental than what President Trump did but one of the realities of intense tribalism of folks no longer listen to others', especially those they consider to be their enemies, even if what they are saying is important.

                The 2022 midterms will likely be a blood bath. Democrats will run on Trump because he is a threat and because they have nothing else to say other than not extending early voting to 30 days is no different than Jim Crow. It is a really tough time to be the POTUS-I don't think anybody is up to the task. Midterms are a referendum on the ruling party and the POTUS specifically. While I agree that a referendum on President Trump is the best card the Democrats have to play it is silly to believe it will be very influential in folks' decisions. There are a long list of issues that voters will be influenced more by that don't shine well on the party in power.

                Republicans will take the House and not by a small margin. They will also come out of it with 52 Senate seats.

                Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                -General George S. Patton

                I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                -DOCTOR Wuap

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by BlueK View Post

                  Is the economy really that bad? There is some inflation because so many have more money. Jobs are not hard to get and workers are able to quit and move around pretty much how they want. Millions of older workers have decided they can retire and are leaving jobs for everyone else.
                  Sorry, I wasn’t saying the economy was bad. I was using that phrase to point out that the things that win and lose elections are generally tangible to voters. Jan 6 will have some impact but not nearly as much as how people feel about the economy and Covid. If inflation is running rampant, people won’t vote for Biden. If kids still aren’t fully in person at school, people won’t vote for Biden. If Covid is still off the charts (even higher than when trump was around) people won’t vote for Biden.
                  "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                  • #39
                    Hard to overstate the damage Trump has done to America.
                    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                      Hard to overstate the damage Trump has done to America.
                      I agree, however Trump didn't happen in a vacuum. Trump was the explosion but the political class of from 2000 to 2015 lit the fuse. Although, the rise of the information age and the erosion of trust in institutions that resulted probably explains this moment more than anything.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Moliere View Post

                        Sorry, I wasn’t saying the economy was bad. I was using that phrase to point out that the things that win and lose elections are generally tangible to voters. Jan 6 will have some impact but not nearly as much as how people feel about the economy and Covid. If inflation is running rampant, people won’t vote for Biden. If kids still aren’t fully in person at school, people won’t vote for Biden. If Covid is still off the charts (even higher than when trump was around) people won’t vote for Biden.
                        I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the covid thing and how one can logically be mad at Biden both for a surge in covid and for trying to get employers to mandate employees be vaccinated. I don't see how those two complaints can be present in the same mind.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BlueK View Post

                          I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the covid thing and how one can logically be mad at Biden both for a surge in covid and for trying to get employers to mandate employees be vaccinated. I don't see how those two complaints can be present in the same mind.
                          People get mad when their lives are disrupted. Further, they are neither logical nor often intelligent. They elected Donald Trump.

                          No specifically, Biden campaigned that unlike Trump he had all the right answers wrt Covid. Unfortunately for him there are no right answers. There are better answers but no silver bullet. It isn't his fault Covid hasn't been stopped but it is his fault folks are holding him accountable for a failure to deliver on his promise.
                          Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                          -General George S. Patton

                          I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                          -DOCTOR Wuap

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by USUC View Post

                            I agree, however Trump didn't happen in a vacuum. Trump was the explosion but the political class of from 2000 to 2015 lit the fuse. Although, the rise of the information age and the erosion of trust in institutions that resulted probably explains this moment more than anything.
                            Yes. Trump is a symptom of the current political climate. It doesn't absolve him of literally being one of the worst presidents in history, but Trump is best understood as a cause and effect phenomenon. We will see others like him in the future.
                            "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                            "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                            - SeattleUte

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post

                              Yes. Trump is a symptom of the current political climate. It doesn't absolve him of literally being one of the worst presidents in history, but Trump is best understood as a cause and effect phenomenon. We will see others like him in the future.
                              Ted Cruz, Marjorie Taylor Green, etc. But yeah, he is one of the worst ever. Maybe the worst ever. I don't think Nixon even comes close in terms of lack of basic human decency and character. We elected a sociopath to the oval office.
                              "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                              "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                              "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post

                                Yes. Trump is a symptom of the current political climate. It doesn't absolve him of literally being one of the worst presidents in history, but Trump is best understood as a cause and effect phenomenon. We will see others like him in the future.
                                I agree. He is the worst and led the way for Bobert, MTG, and the rest. But he was voted in because he was the most clearly anti establishment person running. And because the media propped him up because in their minds it would make the GOP look foolish and ensure a Hillary victory. Looking back, there were several ways Trumped could have been stopped. But people thought they could use him for their own benefit all the while believing someone else would stop him because he was a buffoon.

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