Soccer Mom's thread grabbed my attention.

[Tex]

To some the gift is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died for our sins.

To others the gift is given to believe on their words that they might have eternal life.

Not quoted verbatum, but it is in the D&C Section 46 I think versus 11 and 12.

I don't think I have the first gift. When I realized this, it was comforting to me. That gift wasn't given me. The scripture to me doesn't indicate anything about worthiness to receive the certain gifts. I think the scripture says something like "to some it is given and to others it is given".


There are some whom I hear and am touched. Truthfully most I don't. I feel, good for them, but I am not touched. For me, this scripture gives me an out to not worry about someone who seems to have more faith than I do. I can only do the best with what gifts I was given.


For the intellects or religionists on the board, if I have botched the understanding of the scripture, don't tell me. I like how I feel about it.

This is the scripture I was going to quote, and more or less sums up my view on the matter. Don't have a heart attack about that, '71.

[RC Vikings]

I think one reason God put us on earth was to suffer endless banality and stultification, and to discipline ourselves to believe nonsense and absurdities.

I think we are doing a hell of a job then.

[SeattleUte]

I think one reason God put us on earth was to suffer endless banality and stultification, and to discipline ourselves to believe nonsense and absurdities.

[Pheidippides]

I think you nailed that like...well, I probably shouldn't say in this thread, but you get the picture. I am of the opinion that we should go to church for others, and then we'll be edified ourselves. If we go just looking for our own edification, then we'll usually leave disappointed.

I admit that I endure sacrament meetings. With four small kids, I can only count the minutes until the closing prayer. SS and EQ can be extremely uplifting though, depending on the willingness of the teachers to encourage everyone to participate. We have our share of the the self-righteous, but we also have some salt-of-the-earth folks who offer a lot of wisdom. If I feel I have taught or participated in a way that has helped someone, then the entire 3-hour block was worth every second.

I go to worship God, which sort of ties into your "others" opinion. I don't get much out of sacrament/SS anymore.

[cowboy]

...While I think I recognize most of what you see and refer to, it doesn't bother me. I enjoy Church for myself and because I think it is good. I think I enjoy it most when I find my efforts there of benefit to others.

I think you nailed that like...well, I probably shouldn't say in this thread, but you get the picture. I am of the opinion that we should go to church for others, and then we'll be edified ourselves. If we go just looking for our own edification, then we'll usually leave disappointed.

I admit that I endure sacrament meetings. With four small kids, I can only count the minutes until the closing prayer. SS and EQ can be extremely uplifting though, depending on the willingness of the teachers to encourage everyone to participate. We have our share of the the self-righteous, but we also have some salt-of-the-earth folks who offer a lot of wisdom. If I feel I have taught or participated in a way that has helped someone, then the entire 3-hour block was worth every second.

[Goatnapper'96]

You are clearly out of touch with the Spirit. I hope you feel very bad about yourself.

He made me chuckle telling the story of a really stubborn Stake President that he had to argue with to see the light. I thought they both sounded stubborn just that one had a bigger stick to swing.

But these things don't bother me, the Church is an organization and it needs to function. I just don't think because somebody has great organizational and leadership abilities that are put to use by the Church that his recommendations that we teach our kids the plan of salvation are any more germane than a 6 year old in primary making the same recommendation. In fact I often enjoy the 6 year old more.

[Rosebud]

Well, this is a rambling post. Not a good debut for me in "The Foyer." It's to be expected, I suppose. I am not as erudite as others. My vocabulary is not as polished. I am not a wordsmith. My views and opinions flow from observation and emotions, not from deep seated understanding of the great philosophers or authors.

Your post is incredible Portland. I hope you keep posting in the Foyer. IMO, sincere opinions that come from observations and emotions make up some of the best threads. Thanks for sharing.

[LA Ute]

I listened to the GA. I thought he said some nice things but nothing he said was any more inspiring than many of the youth talks I listen to each week.

You are clearly out of touch with the Spirit. I hope you feel very bad about yourself.

[YOhio]

What a bunch of weak-faith freaks!

Just kidding. Great posts, Portland Ute and others. Thanks for sharing your struggles and triumphs. It seems like there is a genuine, honest attitude about belief here. Just like Soccermom's post helped you open up, yours will do the same for others.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I know I've withheld stuff on this board wondering if it would come across as smug.

That doesn't stop any of us. Go ahead.

[beefytee]

I agree. I also have a great distain for those who have the "look at me, Im doing my part" mentality. I almost burst out in laughter last sunday. In our stake, we have a big push to bring 3000 names to the temple by november. We are building the "South Stake in Zion" as it has been quoted. We were in combined priesthood/rs sunday, and one of the prominent sisters (RS Pres in fact) stands up and sticks up a list of 30 family names she did the work for and is begging for someone to go do the work for them in the temple because she is so busy. Her brother volunteered. Really, you couldnt just call your bro, and ask him to do it in private? She had to make herself look good in front of everyone. Also, her husband always has a cool missionary experience to share...every week. They are super members. Mabe they are tuely genuine, but I dont think so.

It's a fine line. Sometimes it seems like we have conflicting counsel. We are counseled to "let our light so shine" and "not be ashamed of the gospel" but we are also told to not to do stuff to be seen of others, to look more righteous.

Sure there is a big difference between motivations, but that line is easily crossed in practice.


I know I've withheld stuff on this board wondering if it would come across as smug.

[Goatnapper'96]

I appreciate her post and most of the replies to it.

I, like most here, am LDS. I'm 34. I'm finding as life progresses that things aren't quite as tidy as I once believed them to be at the age of 19-21.

I rarely post on this forum, much less in the "The Foyer", but I have to admit that there is some degree of comfort that comes from hearing other people struggle. Knowing that I'm not the "only one."

Not the only one that doesn't "just love going to the Temple."

Not the only one that is bored by the 3 hour block. Not the only one that goes home from the 3 hour block MORE tired then when I arrived.

Not the only one that doesn't go to the temple regularly.

Not the only one that doesn't get great inspiration from reading a book over and over again.

Not the only one that has a hard time saying "I KNOW" when sharing a testimony...finding I "believe" or I "hope" to be more honest.

Not the only one that doesn't believe that falling asleep at night after "physical acts of love" without the garment is not a one way ticket to a fiery hell.

I guess you get my point. This post is a bit cathartic. To be honest, this is really the first time I've shared a lot of these thoughts with anyone, for many of the reasons stated in that thread started by Soccermom.

I get to the point, a lot of times, where I just start to think, "What is WRONG with me???" When I hear someone going on and on about how much they love the temple. Or when I hear them saying that they never feel any closer to God then in the Temple. Or how strong the Spirit was in a meeting...a meeting in which I was really trying to feel or learn something but came away...well, empty.

Does anyone else feel this way? I guess some of you do. I just get tired of going to Church meetings and hearing other people's glowing reviews of the scriptures, or the Temple and wondering why, if I am TRYING, do i not have the same experience.

I feel love. I feel warmth when I serve and am served. That's really it. It's what I hang onto for dear life. Really, the times when I am most touched at church, or anywhere, are the times when I hear of people reaching out to people and making a difference. But, like someone mentioned, it seems like the more I *think*, the less I feel.

Well, this is a rambling post. Not a good debut for me in "The Foyer." It's to be expected, I suppose. I am not as erudite as others. My vocabulary is not as polished. I am not a wordsmith. My views and opinions flow from observation and emotions, not from deep seated understanding of the great philosophers or authors.

I guess, I just "am." It's good to know that there are others who, like me, want to be part of the Church, and just "are."

I have a brother in law who is a spectacular fellow. Very dedicated to the Church and others. He is in our Bishopric out here and he conducted last sunday. We had a GA just show up the sunday before and my BIL got choked up talking about the people who missed the great advice the GA gave. I listened to the GA. I thought he said some nice things but nothing he said was any more inspiring than many of the youth talks I listen to each week. It was highlighted because he was a GA. That is how orthodox mormons are wired. If it comes from a GA it instantly has more clout. I don't have an issue if that methodology works for them, but I am not into hero worship and actually believe it could be counterproductive for some. I think we have a very pronounced culture of spiritual peacock dancing that many don't even realize. I don't know if it will bring the Church under condemnation, but I don't think pride is ever healthy. I appreciate your heavy dose of honesty for seeing how it really is, but I doubt it will ever really change. While I think I recognize most of what you see and refer to, it doesn't bother me. I enjoy Church for myself and because I think it is good. I think I enjoy it most when I find my efforts there of benefit to others.

Welcome and participate with great gusto, just don't let Bronco Mendenhall turn you into a pussy!

[Jeff Lebowski]

You sound pretty normal to me, Portland Ute.

[LA Ute]

Great post, Port, glad to have you here. You will find lots of sympathy and empathy, and some very good folks. You've already had it confirmed that you are "not the only one."

[RC Vikings]

Take a hundred people off the street and then go to a baseball game or an opera and you are going to get a wide range of likes, dislikes, emotions, understanding and desire to return. I believe the same thing happens with Church with the main difference being that we believe it leads to our eternal salvation so we struggle through it and hope for the best.