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  • The Church is wrong about LGBTQ+ individuals. They have been slightly moving the goalposts over the years. I firmly believe that this is losing them more youth than anything else.

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    • Yeah, someone at the church news really messed up…. They should have dropped this article on the first day of LGBTQ+ pride month.


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      "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
      "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
      "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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      • Originally posted by The_Tick View Post
        The Church is wrong about LGBTQ+ individuals. They have been slightly moving the goalposts over the years. I firmly believe that this is losing them more youth than anything else.
        Agreed. My two teenage daughters think the church’s position is wrong. For one of them it seems to be one of the bigger issues. For the other, she doesn’t really care that much but she definitely would like the church to change its stance.


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        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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        • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post

          The binary choice here as stated by Elder Callister is where we "put our prime focus". If we put our prime focus on putting up fences, that doesn't preclude funding ambulances at the bottom of the cliff, but that effort would no longer be the prime focus. Is he really advocating for eliminating ambulances? Well I suppose if abortion, same sex marriage, and zero population are ambulances then he is.

          I think it's important to note that the actual analogy of fences and ambulances by Joseph Malins doesn't present the choice as binary (one or the other). Rather, the need for one would go away after choosing the other. (I won't say which, because I don't want to spoil it!)
          The original analogy makes sense. My complaint is with the idea that the choice is binary or that one should be emphasized over the other. It definitely seems like the article is suggesting that the choice is binary, or at least that investing in "ambulances" is a bad thing. That's certainly what the Barr quote suggests. The idea that investing in "ambulances" is equivalent to "underwriting" sin definitely suggests that we shouldn't be too worried about helping people when they fall down, which I think is a pretty toxic idea. That's not to suggest I support all the "ambulances" identified in the article. I'm generally opposed to abortion. I just think that characterizing it as an "ambulance" at the bottom of a cliff is asinine. It's a far more complicated issue than that.

          We give tax incentives to families and raising children. Mitt Romney wants to add more incentives. Are these fences or ambulances?
          I would say tax incentives are neither fences or ambulances. They are more like a man standing 100 yards away from the cliff handing out cash in order to prevent people from getting close to the cliff to begin with.

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          • Originally posted by UVACoug View Post

            The original analogy makes sense. My complaint is with the idea that the choice is binary or that one should be emphasized over the other. It definitely seems like the article is suggesting that the choice is binary, or at least that investing in "ambulances" is a bad thing. That's certainly what the Barr quote suggests. The idea that investing in "ambulances" is equivalent to "underwriting" sin definitely suggests that we shouldn't be too worried about helping people when they fall down, which I think is a pretty toxic idea. That's not to suggest I support all the "ambulances" identified in the article. I'm generally opposed to abortion. I just think that characterizing it as an "ambulance" at the bottom of a cliff is asinine. It's a far more complicated issue than that.



            I would say tax incentives are neither fences or ambulances. They are more like a man standing 100 yards away from the cliff handing out cash in order to prevent people from getting close to the cliff to begin with.
            Full disclosure, I didn't read the article until after reading your post. I found myself agreeing with your take, but then I read to see what was actually written, and it wasn't so cut and dry as one or the other. So I absolutely agree with you in principle, but I'm left wondering exactly where Elder T.C. is going with it.

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            • Cope - I like you already - you don't have to brown nose me.

              When poet puts pen to paper imagination breathes life, finding hearth and home.
              -Mid Summer's Night Dream

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              • I've seen like of angry responses to this article. I haven't read it and don't anticipate that I will read it. Ex-mo life is so much happier if you just stop paying attention.
                As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
                --Kendrick Lamar

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                • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                  Ha. This is a time capsule. Is anybody really espousing zero population growth these days?
                  it does sound out of place. But then again, how long has the church been using the term ‘same-sex attraction’? Maybe Callister is stuck in the 70’s.
                  "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                  "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                  - SeattleUte

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                  • Originally posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
                    I've seen like of angry responses to this article. I haven't read it and don't anticipate that I will read it. Ex-mo life is so much happier if you just stop paying attention.
                    Mo life can be pretty happy that way, too.

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                    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
                    - Goatnapper'96

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                    • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                      Ha. This is a time capsule. Is anybody really espousing zero population growth these days?
                      I am sympathetic to the Zero Population argument. Every day the world is getting small by far, bursting at the seams. What can we do? Zero population is the answer.
                      Last edited by Clark Addison; 06-04-2021, 09:20 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by Clark Addison View Post

                        I am sympathetic to the Zero Population argument. Every day the world is getting small by far, bursting at the seems. What can we do? Zero population is the answer.
                        I'm not sure I agree with this claim.

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                        • Originally posted by BigFatMeanie View Post

                          I'm not sure I agree with this claim.
                          You clearly are not a student of 1970's mormon theater.
                          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                          • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post

                            You clearly are not a student of 1970's mormon theater.
                            LOL. I've never seen Saturday's Warrior, with the exception of a couple of short clips on Youtube, is he making a reference to that? If so, it indeed went completely over my head.

                            I did know the My Turn On Earth soundtrack pretty well because we used to listen to that as a family on cassette tapes when road-tripping in our no seat-belt car.

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                            • Originally posted by Pelado View Post
                              Mo life can be pretty happy that way, too.

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                              Pelado bringing the truth bomb!
                              "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

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                              • Originally posted by BigFatMeanie View Post

                                I'm not sure I agree with this claim.
                                Agree or not, zero population is the answer, my friend. Without it, the rest of us are doomed.

                                Who can survive?
                                Who can survive?
                                Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

                                There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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