A new Word of Wisdom

[Eddie]

The hope, Clark Addison, is twofold:
... I would hope that Little R. avoids drugs with a blood trail behind them.

Just curious - but what drugs out there do you consider to be free of any kind of drug trail?

I suppose alcohol could qualify. I know there are some legal Marijuana growers, but if unless little R has a prescription I would consider its use similar to that of illegally gained and sold prescriptions - which increases the odds of there being some blood trail in my view.

I guess I just see the drug trade as being heavily run by gangs, which qualifies as a blood trail. Even if you don't buy it from them, the fact that you are buying it at all and creating a demand that allows them to provide a supply creates a link in my mind.

[RobinFinderson]

Just curious - but what drugs out there do you consider to be free of any kind of drug trail?

The ones you (or a friend) grow for your own private consumption.

As far as the laws around 'prescriptions' go, I think that they are a fundamental infringement on what OUGHT to be a fundamental human right -- the right to grow your own food and medicine.

[BlueHair]

I started drinking coffee just a couple of years ago for the health benefits. My wife was pretty surprised when I brought a coffee maker home. I'm about to begin the process of acquiring a taste for wine so I can drink a glass each night, once again for the health benefits. I've had maybe two glasses in my life, and I have to admit it didn't taste good, but it wasn't horrible. Any suggestions for red wines? I'm looking for a reasonably priced wine for beginners.

[pellegrino]

I started drinking coffee just a couple of years ago for the health benefits. My wife was pretty surprised when I brought a coffee maker home. I'm about to begin the process of acquiring a taste for wine so I can drink a glass each night, once again for the health benefits. I've had maybe two glasses in my life, and I have to admit it didn't taste good, but it wasn't horrible. Any suggestions for red wines? I'm looking for a reasonably priced wine for beginners.

http://www.robertsonwinery.co.za/rwrnatsweet.htm

[woot]

I started drinking coffee just a couple of years ago for the health benefits. My wife was pretty surprised when I brought a coffee maker home. I'm about to begin the process of acquiring a taste for wine so I can drink a glass each night, once again for the health benefits. I've had maybe two glasses in my life, and I have to admit it didn't taste good, but it wasn't horrible. Any suggestions for red wines? I'm looking for a reasonably priced wine for beginners.

I tend to go for bold, dry reds. They're the healthiest and I find them to have the best mix of subtle flavors. I've recently discovered some really good whites too though. Reislings are especially nice. Sweet wines aren't my thing at all, but your mileage may vary.

But yeah, the first time I tried wine it tasted more like vinegar than anything I'd imagined. Definitely an acquired taste.

[Non Sequitur]

But yeah, the first time I tried wine it tasted more like vinegar than anything I'd imagined. Definitely an acquired taste.

I think the reason most people initially have a bad reaction to wine is that their first experience with wine is with cheap wine. I never liked wine much, until I went to France. I was with a group of co-workers and they ordered a moderately expensive bottle of wine. I remembered thinking that that was nothing like the wine I recalled drinking back in the States.

[KillerDog]

I've had a couple very interesting conversations recently with family and friends on the subject of the Word of Wisdom. I found the conversations interesting and they sent me on a bit of a research expedition which led me to additional interesting information. The whole thing made me think of CUF so I thought I would post an overview.

The Players:
LDS Woman married in the Temple never intentionally broke the WoW in any iteration, never had caffeine until over 20.
LDS Woman married in the Temple used to drink, smoke weed, loves coffee and still drinks espresso.
LDS Man married in the Temple never intentionally broke the WoW in any iteration, still won't drink caffeine.
LDS Man married in the Temple used to drink, smoke weed, loves coffee and tea but doesn't partake because of the WoW.
LDS Man married in the Temple used to drink, smoke weed, loves coffee and tea, drinks green tea.

The Discussions:
Over the course of three seperate conversations, the players discussed what is or isn't included in the WoW and their rationale behind their own persona interpretation. High points of humor (for me) in the conversations included: temperature of caffeine is important to WoW, anything called tea is prohibited regardless of what it is made from, espresso beans are different from coffee beans, green tea is not made from the same plant as "bad" tea, chai is not tea, alcohol does not occur naturally and the WoW is an anger management code.

The Research:
My research into the WoW because of these conversations uncovered the following gems. Early Church materials include a requisition sent to the Saints in Southern Utah for alcohol to be served at the events surrounding General Conference. Hyrum Smith was the first to define "hot drinks" as coffee and tea. Standard products identified as needed for the Saints to cross the plains included whiskey and coffee. Saints too poor to purchase black tea in the Brigham Young era resorted to drinking so called Brigham Tea which is actually made from a plant with high amounts of naturally occurring stimulants. Despite the fact that Brigham did not live according to the WoW, Joseph F. Smith identified Brigham Young as the prophet who made the WoW a commandment. The rise of the WoW corresponds conspicuously with the Prohibition movement. Utah actually voted for the repeal of Prohibition. Prior to the 1900s many people took "hot drinks" to include the intake of any hot beverage including soup and hot chocolate (this was based on popular "science" at the time which considered such things potentially dangerous"). "Illegal drugs", "illicit drugs", and "harmful drugs" have all been used to prohibit drugs under the WoW with "harmful drugs" being the most recent iteration. Despite the lack of clarity in the language of the WoW, most people seem to think it incredibly clear with its plain meaning being whatever they thought it meant as a child or when first instructed (noted exceptions always involve an appeal to church authority).

My conclusion, the WoW is likely another commandment like the blacks and the priesthood fiasco. A common perception or misconception was codified into "commandment" and then given increasing force and after the fact explanations/value by subsequent leaders until it carries the force of commandment.

[Borg]

Not to derail this thread (I'm on Lebowski's wagon and what he said)...but, LA Ute...what is obviously wrong with your avatar?

2 rivals from each state. GAH! ...this really chaps my ass.

[LA Ute]

Not to derail this thread (I'm on Lebowski's wagon and what he said)...but, LA Ute...what is obviously wrong with your avatar?

2 rivals from each state. GAH! ...this really chaps my ass.

It'll just be up for today because of the celebration. I hear you. Since college I have had lots of conversations with Ute and Cougar fans alike, fantasizing about how if the PAC-10 ever expanded Utah and BYU would be natural additions. That would have been awesome in more ways than I can name.

[scottie]

Not to derail this thread (I'm on Lebowski's wagon and what he said)...but, LA Ute...what is obviously wrong with your avatar?

2 rivals from each state. GAH! ...this really chaps my ass.

What is Lebowski's wagon and what did he say?

[Portland Ute]

It'll just be up for today because of the celebration. I hear you. Since college I have had lots of conversations with Ute and Cougar fans alike, fantasizing about how if the PAC-10 ever expanded Utah and BYU would be natural additions. That would have been awesome in more ways than I can name.

I've been a Utah fan for life. I am living the dream right now. Utah in the PAC12. Inconceivable when I was a boy.

NOTHING could make it any more awesome than it already is.

[Paperback Writer]

I've had a couple very interesting conversations recently with family and friends on the subject of the Word of Wisdom. I found the conversations interesting and they sent me on a bit of a research expedition which led me to additional interesting information. The whole thing made me think of CUF so I thought I would post an overview.

The Players:
LDS Woman married in the Temple never intentionally broke the WoW in any iteration, never had caffeine until over 20.
LDS Woman married in the Temple used to drink, smoke weed, loves coffee and still drinks espresso.
LDS Man married in the Temple never intentionally broke the WoW in any iteration, still won't drink caffeine.
LDS Man married in the Temple used to drink, smoke weed, loves coffee and tea but doesn't partake because of the WoW.
LDS Man married in the Temple used to drink, smoke weed, loves coffee and tea, drinks green tea.

The Discussions:
Over the course of three seperate conversations, the players discussed what is or isn't included in the WoW and their rationale behind their own persona interpretation. High points of humor (for me) in the conversations included: temperature of caffeine is important to WoW, anything called tea is prohibited regardless of what it is made from, espresso beans are different from coffee beans, green tea is not made from the same plant as "bad" tea, chai is not tea, alcohol does not occur naturally and the WoW is an anger management code.

The Research:
My research into the WoW because of these conversations uncovered the following gems. Early Church materials include a requisition sent to the Saints in Southern Utah for alcohol to be served at the events surrounding General Conference. Hyrum Smith was the first to define "hot drinks" as coffee and tea. Standard products identified as needed for the Saints to cross the plains included whiskey and coffee. Saints too poor to purchase black tea in the Brigham Young era resorted to drinking so called Brigham Tea which is actually made from a plant with high amounts of naturally occurring stimulants. Despite the fact that Brigham did not live according to the WoW, Joseph F. Smith identified Brigham Young as the prophet who made the WoW a commandment. The rise of the WoW corresponds conspicuously with the Prohibition movement. Utah actually voted for the repeal of Prohibition. Prior to the 1900s many people took "hot drinks" to include the intake of any hot beverage including soup and hot chocolate (this was based on popular "science" at the time which considered such things potentially dangerous"). "Illegal drugs", "illicit drugs", and "harmful drugs" have all been used to prohibit drugs under the WoW with "harmful drugs" being the most recent iteration. Despite the lack of clarity in the language of the WoW, most people seem to think it incredibly clear with its plain meaning being whatever they thought it meant as a child or when first instructed (noted exceptions always involve an appeal to church authority).

My conclusion, the WoW is likely another commandment like the blacks and the priesthood fiasco. A common perception or misconception was codified into "commandment" and then given increasing force and after the fact explanations/value by subsequent leaders until it carries the force of commandment.

It's also interesting to note that strict WoW observance was not necessary for temple attendance in Utah Territory for many years. However, the Brethren advised Bishops against issuing reccomends to known drunkards because they might attend the temple intoxicated. As you mention, it wasn't until the Prohibition movement that WoW observance/enforcement really changed in the LDS church. Also interesting is that the FLDS have not adopted the "modern" interpretation of the WoW as a commandment (this is second hand info so I might not be correct). Anyway, I would think if Brigham Young (or John Taylor) was responsible for making the WoW a commandment, the FLDS would have a similar observance/standard.

[KillerDog]

It's also interesting to note that strict WoW observance was not necessary for temple attendance in Utah Territory for many years. However, the Brethren advised Bishops against issuing reccomends to known drunkards because they might attend the temple intoxicated. As you mention, it wasn't until the Prohibition movement that WoW observance/enforcement really changed in the LDS church. Also interesting is that the FLDS have not adopted the "modern" interpretation of the WoW as a commandment (this is second hand info so I might not be correct). Anyway, I would think if Brigham Young (or John Taylor) was responsible for making the WoW a commandment, the FLDS would have a similar observance/standard.

I really read it as Joseph F. Smith being too chicken to say that he was making it a commandment. He didn't want to or politically couldn't afford the backlash so he went with the old saw of "someone else said..."

[Uncle Ted]

I've had a couple very interesting conversations recently with family and friends on the subject of the Word of Wisdom. I found the conversations interesting and they sent me on a bit of a research expedition which led me to additional interesting information. The whole thing made me think of CUF so I thought I would post an overview.

The Players:
LDS Woman married in the Temple never intentionally broke the WoW in any iteration, never had caffeine until over 20.
LDS Woman married in the Temple used to drink, smoke weed, loves coffee and still drinks espresso.
LDS Man married in the Temple never intentionally broke the WoW in any iteration, still won't drink caffeine.
LDS Man married in the Temple used to drink, smoke weed, loves coffee and tea but doesn't partake because of the WoW.
LDS Man married in the Temple used to drink, smoke weed, loves coffee and tea, drinks green tea.

The Discussions:
Over the course of three seperate conversations, the players discussed what is or isn't included in the WoW and their rationale behind their own persona interpretation. High points of humor (for me) in the conversations included: temperature of caffeine is important to WoW, anything called tea is prohibited regardless of what it is made from, espresso beans are different from coffee beans, green tea is not made from the same plant as "bad" tea, chai is not tea, alcohol does not occur naturally and the WoW is an anger management code.

The Research:
My research into the WoW because of these conversations uncovered the following gems. Early Church materials include a requisition sent to the Saints in Southern Utah for alcohol to be served at the events surrounding General Conference. Hyrum Smith was the first to define "hot drinks" as coffee and tea. Standard products identified as needed for the Saints to cross the plains included whiskey and coffee. Saints too poor to purchase black tea in the Brigham Young era resorted to drinking so called Brigham Tea which is actually made from a plant with high amounts of naturally occurring stimulants. Despite the fact that Brigham did not live according to the WoW, Joseph F. Smith identified Brigham Young as the prophet who made the WoW a commandment. The rise of the WoW corresponds conspicuously with the Prohibition movement. Utah actually voted for the repeal of Prohibition. Prior to the 1900s many people took "hot drinks" to include the intake of any hot beverage including soup and hot chocolate (this was based on popular "science" at the time which considered such things potentially dangerous"). "Illegal drugs", "illicit drugs", and "harmful drugs" have all been used to prohibit drugs under the WoW with "harmful drugs" being the most recent iteration. Despite the lack of clarity in the language of the WoW, most people seem to think it incredibly clear with its plain meaning being whatever they thought it meant as a child or when first instructed (noted exceptions always involve an appeal to church authority).

My conclusion, the WoW is likely another commandment like the blacks and the priesthood fiasco. A common perception or misconception was codified into "commandment" and then given increasing force and after the fact explanations/value by subsequent leaders until it carries the force of commandment.

In some of my own research I found it interesting that BY got after members for being too strict about the WoW with other members and stated that green tea and brandy/wine are good medicine for the sick...


BY on the WoW in General Conference April 7th, 1867:

The Word of Wisdom is one thing, and ignorance, superstition, or bigotry is another. I wish people to come to an understanding with regard to the Word of Wisdom. For illustration, I will refer to a certain brother who was in the church once, and President of the Elder's Quorum in Nauvoo. While living at that place was a great deal of sickness among the people, and he was sometimes called in to lay hands on the sick, but if he had the least doubt about their drinking tea, if he even saw a tea-pot, he would refuse. I recollect he went into a house where a woman was sick, who wanted him to lay hands on her; he saw a teapot in the corner containing catnip tea, but without stopping to enquire he left the house, exclaiming against her and her practices.

Now, there is no harm in a teapot, even if it contains tea, if it is let alone; and I say of a truth that where a person is diseased, say, for instance, with canker, there is no better medicine than green tea, and where it is thus used it should be drank sparingly. Instead of drinking thirteen or fourteen cups every morning, noon, and night, there should not be any used. You may think I am speaking extravagantly, but I remember a tea-drinking match once in which fourteen cups a-piece were drank, so you see it can be done. But top drink half a dozen or even three or four cups of strong tea is hurtful. It injures and impairs the system, benumbs the faculties of the stomach, and affects the blood, and is deleterious in its nature. If a person is weary, worn out, cast down, fainting, or dying, a brandy sling, a little wine, or a cup of tea is good to revive them. Do not throw these things away, and say they must never be used; they are good to be used with judgment, prudence, and discretion. Ask our Bishops if they drink tea every day, and in most cases they will tell you they do if they can get it. They take it when they do not need it and when it injures them. I want to say to the Elders in Israel, this is not our privilege. We have a great many privileges, but to indulge in liquor or other things to our own injury is not one of them. We have the right to live, labor, build our houses, make our farms, raise our cattle and horses, buy our carriages, marry our wives, raise and school our children, and then we have the right to set before them an example worthy of imitation, but we have not the right to throw sin in their path or to lead them to destruction.

My mother will drink hot green tea when she is sick and has as long I have known her. She will also drink iced green tea with sugar when she is down and needs a little energy, like a lot people (members or not) drink a coke. Folks will argue there is a difference, however, if you look into the caffeine that is in a coke is a mostly a by-product of decaffeinated coffee. My daughter, who is a chemical engineer, once tried to explain to me the process of extracting caffeine from coffee. Given the chemicals I am surprised that drinking caffeinated coke doesn't kill people.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Given the chemicals I am surprised that drinking caffeinated coke doesn't kill people.

By default that would also extend to decaffeinated coffee. (good job on the research, btw. I enjoy reading the ACTUAL opinions of prophets over time and comparing them to common, current beliefs).

Recently an abundance of signs saying, "Chronic pain? Medical Marijuana - $150"* have sprung up. I assume the number of "chronic pain" and "glaucoma" cases will suddenly skyrocket here in WA now that Hempfest is actually 'legal'.


*note I have no idea what quantity that would purchase, nor do I care. Pot is a total non-factor where I am concerned. I can't/won't use it because for the better part of 2 decades I have held jobs requiring random drug tests and the MJ is proscribed, but I realy don't care if people around me use it. It seems to be less harmful (health-wise) than the ever-prevalent cigarette smoke, and is far less of a risk to society at large than alcohol.