Huge Blow Up in Quorum Meeting

[Color Me Badd Fan]

If there were big blowups like this at my priesthood meetings, I think I would try to attend more often. Right now I'm cool manning the ward library and making sure people don't abscond with the felt boards and the VHS copy of Cipher in the Snow while I check out the NFL scores.

[SeattleUte]

SU is already starting to downplay the fulfillment of the White Horse Prophecy.

Clearly you don't know how to make accurate prophesies. It's a parlor trick. You'd make a terrible prophet. But it's not your fault; it's just a blind spot.

[falafel]

Clearly you don't know how to make accurate prophesies. It's a parlor trick. You'd make a terrible prophet. But it's not your fault; it's just a blind spot.

Admission against interest.

[DrumNFeather]

There are many people, likely including people on this forum, who will admit to believing the 'White Horse Prophecy", wherein people will be murdered on the steps of the temple, the US Constitution will be hanging by a thread, and a Mormon will save the nation. Was that revelation ever canonized? Is it recognized today?

Rhetorical question: How many people who believe this prophecy and think it applies to Mitt Romney, would be stunned to see Harry Reid save the nation? (hat tip to Uncle Ted)

Someone in my ward recently brought up the constitution part of this in our EQ...I believe he said that it was second or third hand information from someone and there is no direct quote on that part, which is largely irrlevant either way to me, but interesting.

[DrumNFeather]

Mormon Expression is scheduled to record a podcast on the white horse prophecy some this month I think. Should be interesting.

Oh boy...

[Uncle Ted]

I said "likely", not "definitely".

It is likely that we will find people in nearly any HP quorum who believe said prophecy. I was curious whether people who believe the prophecy (and perhaps 'prophecy' should be in quotes), could believe that a non-Republican would fulfill it.

Of course, it would be a non-republican. It such a prophecy existed then it is only possible that a Libertarian that would fulfill it.

[LA Ute]

There are many people, likely including people on this forum, who will admit to believing the 'White Horse Prophecy", wherein people will be murdered on the steps of the temple, the US Constitution will be hanging by a thread, and a Mormon will save the nation. Was that revelation ever canonized? Is it recognized today?

Rhetorical question: How many people who believe this prophecy and think it applies to Mitt Romney, would be stunned to see Harry Reid save the nation? (hat tip to Uncle Ted)

Here's the church's official statement on the "White Horse Prophecy:"

“The so-called ‘White Horse Prophecy’ is based on accounts that have not been substantiated by historical research and is not embraced as Church doctrine.”

Rex Lee gave a talk that dealt with the White Horse Prophecy too.

A final area of constitutional interest unique to Latter-day Saints finds its source in the well-known "hanging by a thread" statements by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Similar statements have been reiterated by no fewer than six of his successors, including the current prophet. In a forthcoming book to be published by the Religious Studies Center, Professor Donald Cannon lists over forty instances in which these seven presidents have either used the "thread" metaphor or something like it. But in none of those quotations cited by Professor Cannon has any Church leader ever been very specific as to the metaphor's meaning.

Unfortunately, some members of the Church have been all too ready to offer their own explanations. The only thing consistent about these explanations is that in each instance, it was the Church member's own unresolved, often very private, grievance that supplied evidence that the thread was beginning to fray, sometimes beyond repair. Among some people, any problem from a tax increase to a failure to collect the garbage on time to a boundary dispute with one's neighbor is likely to call forth the observation that it is certainly easy to see how the Constitution is hanging by a thread. A companion assertion is that the election or appointment of certain persons, often the person making the assertion, to designated positions provides the key to preventing the demise of our constitutional system.

In my view, this is another instance in which going beyond what our leaders have said can be misleading at best, and potentially fraught with mischief. Even though we have not been given the exact meaning of the prophets' statements about the Constitution hanging by a thread, the scriptures do define the conditions on which freedom in the land of America ultimately depends. I am satisfied that whatever else may eventually hang in the constitutional balance, this much is clear: The continuation of the blessings of liberty depends finally on our spiritual righteousness. As the Lord told the Jaredites in the Book of Ether, this is a "land of promise." And "whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, . . . if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ." If the people fail to keep this covenant, they "shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity" (Ether 2:9*12).

[TripletDaddy]

It is interesting to consider the LDS official statement from last year and Rex Lee's discourse almost 20 years ago. President Lee is basically saying the same thing it took the Church 20 years to finally "officially" say....namely, get over the White Horse Prophesy because it might not have ever happened and even if it did, the spirit of it would not be found in partisan politics but in how we live our daily lives.

Pres. lee was prescient in identifying the paranoid that find doom and gloom in any government action or inaction. This mentality seems so pervasive today.

[LA Ute]

It is interesting to consider the LDS official statement from last year and Rex Lee's discourse almost 20 years ago. President Lee is basically saying the same thing it took the Church 20 years to finally "officially" say....namely, get over the White Horse Prophesy because it might not have ever happened and even if it did, the spirit of it would not be found in partisan politics but in how we live our daily lives.

Pres. lee was prescient in identifying the paranoid that find doom and gloom in any government action or inaction. This mentality seems so pervasive today.

It's been a long time since I researched it but I don't think the White Horse Prophecy was ever recognized as a church doctrine or teaching. IIRC it was always folklore, because there were always multiple accounts of what JS actually said and no one was ever really sure which one, if any, was correct.

[TexTechCoug]

Doctrinal discussions with my high priest father typically turn out this way. He is from that era and there is no room for disagreement.

Good luck with this situation, I agree that diffusing the situation personally will likely have the best long term outcome, that and not being forced to have class together.

I am probably one of the least doctrinally versed life long member RM's in the world, for various readsons, but BRM had no business writing Mormon Doctrine and by doing so he established his personal opinion as gospel.

[myboynoah]

It wouldn't surprise me if the White Horse prophesy turned out to be true, wholly by accident. Constitution hanging by a thread can be read to mean the country on the brink of totalitarianism. Odds are strong this will happen sometime in the future. In the 100 thousand years of human history how many years have we had of liberty and representative government somewhere on the planet guaranteed in a Constitution? Further, you see what seems inevitably to happen to such forms of government. See for example what happened to the Athenians, the Roman Republic, the Weimar repulic, etc.

Further, it's not implausible that a "white horse" politician battling against this dangerous situation would come from the conservative or (probably more likely these days, with the religious right's influence over consrvative politics) libertarian wing of U.S. politics. As we've seen, Mormonism produces more than its share of high profile politicians sensitive to libertarian or conservative mores (e.g., Reid the Senate majority leader, plus two presidential candidates, including the apparent or erstwhile front runner).

This would have nothing to do with God, however.

Hmmmmmmmm.

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Okay, these people are batshit crazy.

[PaloAltoCougar]

This shouldn't cause a blow-up, but I'm leading tomorrow's quorum discussion of Sister Browning's very good October '24 Conference talk, "Seeking Answers to Spiritual Questions." I intend to bring in the Uchtddorf quote she cites, “asking questions isn’t a sign of weakness” but rather “it’s a precursor of growth." This may be where, as often happens, my presentation shifts from pure doctrine to the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture. I may use, yet again, the great quote from Conclave:

There is one sin that I have come to fear above all others. Certainty. Certainty is the great enemy of unity. Certainty is the deadly enemy of tolerance. Even Christ was not certain at the end. In his agony, he cried out, “My god, my god, why hast though abandoned me?” Our faith is a living thing precisely because it walks hand-in-hand with doubt. If there was only certainty and no doubt, there would be no mystery. And therefore no need for faith.

And that may lead to what is perhaps my favorite religion joke of all time (h/t Emo Philips):

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

Worst case, a much-deserved release.

[Pelado]

This shouldn't cause a blow-up, but I'm leading tomorrow's quorum discussion of Sister Browning's very good October '24 Conference talk, "Seeking Answers to Spiritual Questions." I intend to bring in the Uchtddorf quote she cites, “asking questions isn’t a sign of weakness” but rather “it’s a precursor of growth." This may be where, as often happens, my presentation shifts from pure doctrine to the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture. I may use, yet again, the great quote from Conclave:



And that may lead to what is perhaps my favorite religion joke of all time (h/t Emo Philips):



Worst case, a much-deserved release.

Touching story. Brings tears to my eyes.

[All-American]

This shouldn't cause a blow-up, but I'm leading tomorrow's quorum discussion of Sister Browning's very good October '24 Conference talk, "Seeking Answers to Spiritual Questions." I intend to bring in the Uchtddorf quote she cites, “asking questions isn’t a sign of weakness” but rather “it’s a precursor of growth." This may be where, as often happens, my presentation shifts from pure doctrine to the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture. I may use, yet again, the great quote from Conclave:



And that may lead to what is perhaps my favorite religion joke of all time (h/t Emo Philips):



Worst case, a much-deserved release.

I'll have to remember that one.

[Bo Diddley]

PAC would be a great addition to any EQ.