When my testimony started heading south

[Indy Coug]

The hollowness I was referring to is the inevitable circular argument of who's truth is more true, and/or who's truth is not true.

My witness isn't a comparative one, so while I understand your point, I personally find it irrelevant.

[LA Ute]

"More highly developed" or just different? I haven't studied up on other religions, so I don't know. But I'd be surprised to find that the Catholics and protestants don't have lots of writings on the subject that would be considered "highly developed"?

At the risk of over-simplifying, anything those other Christian faiths would have to say would need to be derivative of the Bible alone. (The Catholics do have the Pope, and in a way I think they see him as a type of prophet.) Our canon is much larger and contains much more specific information about the nature of revelation and God's relationship to mankind. We also believe in continuing revelation. That's all a big part of our message, and a part that I buy into 100%. In a sense, we have a "revelatory" theology, as opposed to a more academic theology in other faiths. Again, I am not bragging, just trying to be accurate. Ours is a distinctive faith, whether one believes it or not. In fact, our distinctiveness is what causes us to be reviled by so many Orthodox Christian faiths.

[smokymountainrain]

At the risk of over-simplifying, anything those other Christian faiths would have to say would need to be derivative of the Bible alone. (The Catholics do have the Pope, and in a way I think they see him as a type of prophet.) Our canon is much larger and contains much more specific information about the nature of revelation and God's relationship to mankind. We also believe in continuing revelation. That's all a big part of our message, and a part that I buy into 100%. In a sense, we have a "revelatory" theology, as opposed to a more academic theology in other faiths. Again, I am not bragging, just trying to be accurate. Ours is a distinctive faith, whether one believes it or not. In fact, our distinctiveness is what causes us to be reviled by so many Orthodox Christian faiths.

Plus, we have our temples and in them and through them a unique and special opportunity to serve others. Take the temple away from me and the ordinances that can be performed in it and perhaps I could belong to any religion and it wouldn't matter.

Also, while the purpose of our temple attendance is to do work and perform service rather than to be entertained, I actually like being there for own good as well.

[LA Ute]

Plus, we have our temples and in them and through them a unique and special opportunity to serve others. Take the temple away from me and the ordinances that can be performed in it and perhaps I could belong to any religion and it wouldn't matter.

Also, while the purpose of our temple attendance is to do work and perform service rather than to be entertained, I actually like being there for own good as well.

Yet another "Mormon distinctive." Thanks.

[UtahDan]

UtahDan said:

+1



...

[CardiacCoug]

I've attended a lot of different faiths, particularly with friends during my HS years, and the difference as far as the Spirit goes was very stark; even for an ignorant teen who wasn't all that into church and didn't have his mom and dad around during those years to keep him on the straight and narrow. I found it very enlightening.

I know everyone was loving this post by Indy, but this part of his post is bullshit and typifies LDS arrogance, disrespect for, and denigration of other religions.

You are kidding yourself if you think there is some type of "Spirit" that is present at LDS services that is "starkly" absent in other religions.

[Indy Coug]

I know everyone was loving this post by Indy, but this part of his post is bullshit and typifies LDS arrogance, disrespect for, and denigration of other religions.

During HS, as a student of a private boarding school, I was required to go to church every Sunday. I went to church every Sunday, but I went to an LDS church about six weeks out of those three years. You do the math. I went to Baptist, Presbyterian (most frequently), Methodist, Episcopalian and Catholic services.

I noticed a distinct difference. That was my personal experience. It's not bullshit and my experience is not your experience or anyone else's experience.

You are kidding yourself if you think there is some type of "Spirit" that is present at LDS services that is "starkly" absent in other religions.

Really? How would you know?

[jay santos]

During HS, as a student of a private boarding school, I was required to go to church every Sunday. I went to church every Sunday, but I went to an LDS church about six weeks out of those three years. You do the math. I went to Baptist, Presbyterian (most frequently), Methodist, Episcopalian and Catholic services.

I noticed a distinct difference. That was my personal experience. It's not bullshit and my experience is not your experience or anyone else's experience.




Really? How would you know?

You have to admit you were conditioned from a baby to expect to feel the Spirit in an LDS church and to expect not to feel it elsewhere. Don't you think others of different faiths would express a similar sentiment of feeling a stronger feeling in their own faith's worship place?

Personally, I've felt a very strong feeling of the Holy Ghost in various worship places, including LDS, Catholic, Protestant, and Buddhist temple, not to mention Yankee Stadium, Lincoln monument, Met museum of art, and greatest of all LES.

[CardiacCoug]

During HS, as a student of a private boarding school, I was required to go to church every Sunday. I went to church every Sunday, but I went to an LDS church about six weeks out of those three years. You do the math. I went to Baptist, Presbyterian (most frequently), Methodist, Episcopalian and Catholic services.

I noticed a distinct difference. That was my personal experience. It's not bullshit and my experience is not your experience or anyone else's experience.




Really? How would you know?

That's great if that was your experience -- and of course I can't argue or disagree with what happened in your brain when you attended various churches.

I just think that non-LDS people find this attitude (which is obviously very common among Mormons) highly disrespectful and insulting, and they are justified in feeling that way. No wonder so many people from other religions don't like associating with Mormons when we say insulting things like that.

[CardiacCoug]

One of the times when I could say I felt the Spirit most strongly was at a Methodist church service in Nashville TN. I won't go into details, but I still remember a lot of details from that service and it really touched me.

While I think some people might respond preferentially to a certain style of worship service, it seems delusional to think that one church or another has a monopoly on the "Spirit."

[UtahDan]

I know everyone was loving this post by Indy, but this part of his post is bullshit and typifies LDS arrogance, disrespect for, and denigration of other religions.

You are kidding yourself if you think there is some type of "Spirit" that is present at LDS services that is "starkly" absent in other religions.

We were doing so well here! I agree that Indy is describing his own experience rather than a universal experience but it isn't bullshit. Play nice, Cardiac.

[LA Ute]

That's great if that was your experience -- and of course I can't argue or disagree with what happened in your brain when you attended various churches.

I just think that non-LDS people find this attitude (which is obviously very common among Mormons) highly disrespectful and insulting, and they are justified in feeling that way. No wonder so many people from other religions don't like associating with Mormons when we say insulting things like that.

You make a worthwhile point. It seems to me that we Mormons should be very careful about discussing this, even among ourselves.

FWIW, this is a relatively unfamiliar subject to me. In my own experience it just doesn't come up much. In my Ward and stake we have at least 50% converts and there is an unwritten rule of etiquette that one does not trash one's former church. In priesthood or SS lessons the instructors might discuss how they always felt something was missing in their former church, or they felt something special in our meetings, etc. But I don't recall hearing anyone say in public, "You know, the Spirit just isn't present in Methodist meetings. " I agree that such statements would be pretty inappropriate in most settings (maybe in all but a very few).

At the same time, I think we Mormons need to come to grips with our core belief that ours is the one church with full divine authority and all the truth mankind needs in order to achieve "salvation" (using the nuanced, multi-faceted definition we give that term). On its face that belief is going to annoy some people, but we can't really downplay it much. It's all a matter of tact and sensitivity while keeping the integrity of the message. I like the way Pres. Hinckley formulated the invitation to others: Keep all the truth and good that you have, but come and see if we don't have something more.

Deposit 2 cents.

EDIT: I don't think we have a monopoly on the Spirit at all. I do think the Spirit is going to testify to the truthfulness of different things in a Baptist service than in an LDS service. But that's just me.

[byu71]

I like the way Pres. Hinckley formulated the invitation to others: Keep all the truth and good that you have, but come and see if we don't have something more.

Deposit 2 cents.

I could listen to President Hinckley talk and talk and talk and not get tired of hearing him. He could speak truth to me and yet I never felt offended.

I especially enjoyed one conference talk where he instructed us to not take ourselves so seriously.

He knew my Uncle well as my Uncle was one of the Hinckley's Dr's. I remember a meeting where he spoke and came up and talked to my Uncles family. I was a little nervous for my cousin who home from his mission had let his hair grow quite long. President Hinckley greeted him warmly and I swear didn't even notice the long hair.

[UtahDan]

EDIT: I don't think we have a monopoly on the Spirit at all. I do think the Spirit is going to testify to the truthfulness of different things in a Baptist service than in an LDS service. But that's just me.

I had a pretty strong experience last week watching The Road, particularly when The Boy wakes up to find The Man has died in the night, and stays with his body for a while. It really touched me. Now I am stuck trying to figure out if it is The Road, Cormac McCarthy, Viggo Mortenson or just the idea of father/son love that is "true." I would much prefer if these things came with small piece of paper like the kind in a fortune cookie so that it was clear to thick headed people like me.

[CardiacCoug]

We were doing so well here! I agree that Indy is describing his own experience rather than a universal experience but it isn't bullshit. Play nice, Cardiac.

"I'm not saying all other churches are bad, I'm just saying that I attended other Christian churches dozens of times and never felt the Spirit in any other church except for an LDS Church. It was a stark contrast."

I'm sorry for being rude to Indy, but I honestly think that the best way of characterizing that type of thinking is delusional. It's also rude and insulting toward other religions -- I don't like it.